Muhammad Ali? Is this an authentic Ali? VERDICT IS IN

[thenavarro]

Thoughts on this glove that is purported to be signed by Muhammad Ali.

Is the signature an authentic Ali or not?

Thanks,

Mike

[thenavarro]

Anyone here familiar enough with boxing autographs, and helpful enough to assist, would be appreciated.

[CollectiblesNJ]

Looks like a John Olson to me.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

Anyone here familiar enough with boxing autographs, and helpful enough to assist, would be appreciated.

I think some people that read the board would rather argue than provide help. It's just the autograph hobby . It's acceptable ....

[bender07]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think some people that read the board would rather argue than provide help. It's just the autograph hobby . It's acceptable ....

Sad but true Leon.

The vast majority of threads on the autograph side are focused on authenticity. Don't get me wrong, it's great to have a place to get some opinions but it can become redundant IMO.

[joed25]

Where is the boxing expert?

[D. Bergin]

I think you will have a hard time getting anybody to commit to an opinion on most versions of Muhammad Ali signatures whether they are good or not, unless they know exactly where they came from or from what signing.

A 5 year-old could convincingly forge a later years Ali sig.

I just avoid 99.99999% that I run across and I am offered them on a weekly basis, at least.

For what it's worth, the glove looks like the style of Everlast souvenir glove they sell at the Boxing Hall of Fame in Canastota (specifically to have signed, not for actual usage)...........though I'm sure it's probably available elsewhere. The only year Ali ever showed up there was the first year (1990 I believe).

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by joed25

Where is the boxing expert?

Perhaps he's stranded on Autograph Planet.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Perhaps he's stranded on Autograph Planet.

That's what I love about that boob....complete nimrod, IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtW98VSegk

That's big, dumb, flaring like a pack of hemorrhoids boy on the right.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

That's what I love about that boob....complete nimrod, IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtW98VSegk

That's big, dumb, flaring like a pack of hemorrhoids boy on the right.

3 Stooges- They just don't make slapstick like that anymore.....it's too bad.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by CollectiblesNJ

Looks like a John Olson to me.

I thought on those, that the 3rd downstroke of the M usually came down past the 2nd stroke and basically equally with the 1st, and then then the "uhammad" would begin at the lowest portion of the 3rd downstroke of the M, which was equally as low as the first downstroke. In authentic Ali's, the uhammad begins higher up in proportion to the 1st downstroke of the M, like the one pictured on my glove in this thread.

At least that's the general "tell" that I've always been told on how to quickly identify fake Ali's.

If it turns out to be fake, I shouldn't have any issue getting my funds back as I bought it from a guy I've been dealing with intermiittently for years, Todd Mueller from Todd Mueller Autographs.

I went ahead and purchased it Sunday night after not seeing any replies to my thread, as I deduced, perhaps incorrectly, that if it was questionable or fake, some of the knowledgeable boxing members, whom always purport to have the best interest of the boxing hobby in mind, even if they don't like me personally, IF they had seen the thread, would have called it out quickly and vehemently like they do with other boxing items that other auction houses list. (sorry for the long run on sentence, my grammar skills might be on par with my deduction skills)

When I have time I'll contact Sean from the Ali autograph web study site and see what he thinks.

Mike

[Duluth Eskimo]

I think it's actually good, by its such a bad signature that it is hard to know for sure. If your question is a actually, "is it worth the the risk to get a PSA or JSA letter" I would say yes depending on what it will cost you. With that being said, I do not proclaim to be an Ali expert. I have bought and sold a number of Ali items in the past as well as received earlier stuff in person from Ali. This is one of those signatures that there will be equal opinions on both sides.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I think it's actually good, by its such a bad signature that it is hard to know for sure. If your question is a actually, "is it worth the the risk to get a PSA or JSA letter" I would say yes depending on what it will cost you. With that being said, I do not proclaim to be an Ali expert. I have bought and sold a number of Ali items in the past as well as received earlier stuff in person from Ali. This is one of those signatures that there will be equal opinions on both sides.

Thanks Jason for your opinion.

I'm not worried about a PSA or JSA letter, just trying to find out if the sig is legit or not.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Perhaps he's stranded on Autograph Planet.

Isn't Mueller one of the Planet guys as well?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by joed25

Where is the boxing expert?

Heh...

Probably cruising through auction sites looking for more troll bait to use for threadshitting other peoples' posts here.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Heh...

Probably cruising through auction sites looking for more troll bait to use for threadshitting other peoples' posts here.

No doubt about that.....

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by joed25

Where is the boxing expert?

Give Travis at least six weeks...........

[HRBAKER]

If you could figure out a way to post it on the Heritage website you might get a comment.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

If you could figure out a way to post it on the Heritage website you might get a comment.

lol

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Give Travis at least six weeks...........

Right. Remember proper authentication can't be rushed. If it took Travis over 6 weeks to ponder a Sullivan signature with a long dedication, I think it's reasonable to expect this Ali signature would take around 8.5 weeks of deliberation.

[RCMcKenzie]

I am a boxing fan and collect a few cards and memorabilia. I am not a handwriting expert, but have seen Ali's autograph many times. When I first saw this post, my thought was that it did not look good. Not saying Ali did not sign it, just did not look like one I would want to buy.

[toyman55]

I have used this site to follow Ali's autograph: http://www.aliautos.net/examples.html
Look in the column marked 90's top row middle. I think it may be a good autograph.

[earlywynnfan]

You can always compare it to this PSA'd one!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141039370574...#ht_119wt_1399

Holy crap!

Ken

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

You can always compare it to this PSA'd one!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141039370574...#ht_119wt_1399

Holy crap!

Ken

That's not a real PSA LOA is it?

Since when do they do appraisals?

Plus, guy said he bought it a few years ago with the letter already included. Date of just the letter is less then two years ago.

Gotta appreciate the tiny photos.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Isn't Mueller one of the Planet guys as well?

Yes, he is Travis's friend.

And Travis's silence speaks volumes.

[thenavarro]

Have sent an evaluation request to Shawn from aliautos.net to take a look and render an opinion.

Shawn has always been fairly knowledgeable from what I can tell on Ali. He has co-authored a guide on Ali (and even though one of the co-authors was Koschal), Shawn has always been a straight shooter and honest in our dealings.

Mike

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

Have sent an evaluation request to Shawn from aliautos.net to take a look and render an opinion.

Shawn has always been fairly knowledgeable from what I can tell on Ali. He has co-authored a guide on Ali (and even though one of the co-authors was Koschal), Shawn has always been a straight shooter and honest in our dealings.

Mike

Agreed. From what I know, Sean Anderson is a credible and impartial Ali expert. I had him examine my Ali.

[thenavarro]

and the verdict is in


"Hello Mike,


Regarding: Attached image (glove)

I have looked at the listing and it is my opinion that the signature is authentic.



Additional comments

I would like to see different angles if possible. I don't think it would alter my opinion, just would like to see them.



Thank you for using the AliAutos.com Opinion Service.


Email me with any questions you may have.


Shawn Anderson
http://www.AliAutos.com"

[thenavarro]

Perhaps some scarce harmony on a boxing autograph. Was at Beckett today in Dallas, and had my Ali glove with me and got it authenticated by JSA today as well.

Now it's been passed by Todd Mueller autographs, Aliautos.com, and James Spence Authentication.

Would still be interesting to read what our resident boxing autograph expert thinks about it, as it poses a pretty difficult conundrum.

1) If he thinks it's good, I doubt he would say, because then it would mean he would have to say that a piece I have, and a piece that JSA authenticated, was actually good
2) if he thinks it's bad, I doubt he would say, because then he would have to indicate that a piece that one of his friends (Todd Mueller) sold was bad

Probably best to just stay out of it, or give a no opinion, which is his perfectly acceptable right as well.

As the world turns in the world of autograph politics.

What a GREAT hobby we have! LOL (in all seriousness, I do love the hobby)

[Exhibitman]

Thanks for the linky-dink to Aliautos.com. I sent over this one:



and the opinion was that it is good. I am thinking about commissioning a custom card using it. I had one made of my Eric Idle in-person auto and I am very happy with the result:

This back of my business card signature...



Became this PC-sized artwork...



[Both sides shown]