Walter Johnson or wife?

[RelicSports]

I was perusing a couple auction photos earlier and noticed a similarity between a Walter Johnson autograph that sold in the last Huggins and Scott auction, and an auction that Legendary just opened up. In the Legendary auction, they list the photo of Johnson and Wood as being signed "Joe Wood" by Mrs. Johnson. I then noticed the similarities in J's and W's to that of the Walter Johnson photo from the Huggins and Scott auction. My question is...could the Huggins and Scott photo signature attributed to Walter Johnson (TPA) in fact be his wife's? Or...to really shuffle it up, the signature that is on Joe Wood be that of the big train? Below are the 2 photos I am mentioning. I would love to hear people's thoughts...i know we have some big time Johnson collectors on here.

[shelly]

Not sure if it is his wife but I am sure its not him.

[Hankphenom]

Neither photo is in Hazel Johnson's hand. The Joe Wood photo came from me originally, and I believe it to be in Johnson's hand.

[shelly]

Listed my answere below.

[Runscott]

The 'J' doesn't look like his 'J', but it also looks like it was once open at the bottom, and someone 'closed' it. The 'd' at the end of 'Wood' looks just like Johnson's 'd's at the end of words.

Johnson and Wood in the same post. heh heh.

[shelly]

That is a Walter Johnson signiture? Fooled me.

wj.jpg This from the twentys.

[RelicSports]

Thanks for chiming in Hank! I thought that looked awfully similar to Johnson's early 20's (pre-1925) signature, but when Legendary referenced it as in his wife's hand, it made me question past signatures that have sold as authentic to Walter Johnson.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Bearfan4

Thanks for chiming in Hank! I thought that looked awfully similar to Johnson's early 20's (pre-1925) signature, but when Legendary referenced it as in his wife's hand, it made me question past signatures that have sold as authentic to Walter Johnson.

Still not close here is 1919 sig.
wj2.jpg

[shelly]

One more you can compare.
Wrong slant on your picture not signed by him. Just my humble opinion.
169.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

That Walter Johnson looks good to me.

[David Atkatz]

Looks good to me, too.

[JimStinson]

Vintage JOE WOOD Autograph circa 1930
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[Leon]

Since we are on Walter Johnson this won't be too far off topic. I got this scan in an email very recently. The person told me that his uncle got it and saw it signed. He has absolutely no interest in selling it and his email to me was one concerning valuation. Of course I told him $100 and might know a buyer . Actually, I said 5k-10k but hard to say after that....could be a lot more, who knows? And I told him so too....I have only seen about 3 of these cards. They are rare to start with.
Here is a bit of the correspondence.


Leon,

On September 8, 2007, you posted an image of a Walter Johnson Oakland Tribune Card on the Net 54 Vintage Baseball Card Forum. I know it's many years later, but I was specifically researching that card because my uncle gave it to me when I was a boy. Uniquely, Walter Johnson signed the card in his presence. I thought you might have an idea of it's value, or where I could go to get it appraised. I'm a big baseball fan and it has sentimental value, so I would really appreciate any information. Thank you very much.

and in a subsequent email follow up-


Thank you very much for your reply. I'm planning on giving it to my son (also a big baseball fan). I though you would enjoy seeing it. It is in good condition except for the crease mark in the middle where my uncle folded it. I'm sure he didn't know as a 16 year old boy meeting Walter Johnson that the card would someday be so special. Again, I really appreciate your thoughtfulness in replying.

R.




.

[shelly]

I am not good at old timers. I looked at the autographs from Hunt and it just does not look the same. I will stick to what I know.

[Runscott]

Chris and David,

Are you saying that the 'Joe Wood' looks like it was penned by Walter Johnson?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Chris and David,

Are you saying that the 'Joe Wood' looks like it was penned by Walter Johnson?

I am saying that the Walter Johnson posted here by member BearFan4 is an early Walter Johnson sig.

[David Atkatz]

It's a good Johnson signature. And I agree with Hank--the Wood looks like Johnson's hand.

[Runscott]

Okay, thanks. I was confused because the OP introduced the first piece (with Johnson's name) as signed by Hazel. I also had not seen any Walter Johnson signatures that looked anything like that one, including the one posted by Packs in another thread, from 1908 (see below).

That 'W' just looks way too different from the following to be Walter Johnson's. Comparing the postcard writing to a 2-page letter I have from the '30s, I just don't see any handwriting changes that are that significant.

[shelly]

I really have to say that I have now looked at over twenty Johnson signed pieces from that time. Not one of them looks like that signiture. I know the guys that do the old players know what they are talking about but I would never buy that item.

[RelicSports]

Sorry for any confusion...i was just unsure why Legendary would list the Joe Wood/Walter Johnson photo as being signed "Joe Wood" by Johnson's wife...and the similarities to other vintage Johnson signatures threw me off. Thanks for everyone's input

[Scott Garner]

Here are two examples of Walter Johnson's signature from a similar time period to compare. Both of these are from my personal collection.

FWIW, I believe the Huggins and Scott signed photo to be an authentic example of Walter Johnson's signature. It's obvious that Walter changed the formation of the "W" and the "J" in his signature during the mid-to later 1920's, but many characters in his handwriting and the way he formed numerical characters remained fairly constant.

The first is the exact same photo image as the one posted at the beginning of this thread signed and dated by WaJo on June 15, 1927. This was signed right before Walter retired as a player at the end of 1927.

The second exemplar is a March, 1929 GPC questionnaire that was signed and filled out by Walter. This was signed just as Mr. Johnson was about to launch his career as a baseball manager.

You be the judge...

[Hankphenom]

Walter managed in the big leagues for seven seasons. Not a long time, as managers go, but hardly "brief," either. And he did quite well, all things considered.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Walter managed in the big leagues for seven seasons. Not a long time, as managers go, but hardly "brief," either. And he did quite well, all things considered.

Hi Hank,
The word "brief" has been officially removed from my post.
Thanks for correcting my oversight. Sorry for my unintentional slight.

[Hankphenom]

No problem, Scott.

[Runscott]

I'd still like to see a real example with the odd 'W' and 'J', but I do see the similarities in the smaller letters, and also it's a dead-ringer for the facsimile signature in Leon's postcard.

Perfect example of how you can learn something on this board that you aren't going to pick up anywhere else (generally) - an auction house even sold it as a fake.

[shelly]

I know have looked at at least forty items from that time and can not match anything close to that photo. I know JSA authenticated it but I agree with Scott .
Show me an autograph from that time that looks like that.

[Scott Garner]

Hank,
I do not want to put you on the spot, but...

You probably have as much experience looking at Walter's signature through the years from the family scrapbooks, etc. than anybody. Although you commented on the Joe Wood autograph, I didn't see you indicate an opinion on the Walter Johnson signed photo from 1924.

Just curious, do you recall seeing Walter sign with this style "W" or "J" during the early 1920's as exhibited on this photo?

Thanks in advance for taking a moment to weigh in, if you're open to doing so.

[Hankphenom]

It looks OK to me, but that certainly doesn't guarantee it is. I'll ask Keating what he thinks. I'd like to see what's on the back.

[Scott Garner]

Thanks Hank! I appreciate the offer to help provide an assist.

[shelly]

Hank, I want to thank you. If you have some doubt it makes me extremly happy. I dont know much about old timers but that signiture does not come close to anything that I have seen during that era.
The question is can anyone who likes it show me a piece from that time that looks anything like that. Psa or Jsa is not the last word.

[David Atkatz]

Shelly, what part of "it looks OK to me" don't you understand?

[Hankphenom]

Kevin likes it a lot, says it's "no-brainer" good. I'll go with that.

[shelly]

Hank, thanks. I dont mind being wrong when I have people I trust telling me.
I will stick to what I know.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Kevin likes it a lot, says it's "no-brainer" good. I'll go with that.

Thanks again for the assist and please let Kevin know that we appreciate his input.
Scott