Most Legendary Players

[ls7plus]

Who, in your opinion, are the ten most legendary players in the hobby?

Meaning those who strode like true giants across the playing field, with indomitable vigor, ready and able to conquer all?

And who, among these, has the most undervalued cards?

Thanks for your input, guys.

Best always,

Larry

[phikappapsi]

If you're talking about titans of the game that are undervalued, I'd say DiMaggio.

The guy hit for average, hit for power, was an amazing fielder, and he was the glue that held a Yankee team together between two dynasties. He was the bridge from Lou to Mick and he could've been even better without the war.

Same could be said for Ted... Only differences are... 1 Ted wasn't nearly the defensive player Joe D was... 2 Teds cards carry a significant premium.

I don't think there's another guy out there that was better, whose cards you can get for less

[frankbmd]

MARIO MENDOZA

A legend is a nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as historical.

Mario alone through his prowess in the batter's box defined mediocrity, both inside and outside baseball over 30 years ago. The Mendoza Line began as a clubhouse joke in 1979 when from mid April to mid May George Brett's batting average dropped from .341 on 4/17 to .244 on 5/11. Teammates chided Brett that his average was going to drop below the Mendoza Line in the Sunday newspaper's listing of major league batters (older members remember how the batters were listed by average in the Sunday papers before the internet). On May 11th Mendoza was batting .202 that year. I believe that .200 became the generic Mendoza line.

The legend of the Mendoza Line was popularized in the early days of ESPN by Chris Berman, who attributed the reference to Brett. Although the original Mendoza line in the Sunday newspaper may still be used to describe mediocrity in baseball, dropping below the Mendoza Line can be applied to mediocrity in any field and hence the legendary status of the term.

Interestingly Mendoza ended his career with a batting average of .215, somewhat above the generic Mendoza Line. He was also known to be an above average fielder.

With this background who can argue that the 1980 Mendoza card imaged below is not undervalued at 2 cents.

[Chris D.]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

MARIO MENDOZA

A legend is a nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as historical.

Mario alone through his prowess in the batter's box defined mediocrity, both inside and outside baseball over 30 years ago. The Mendoza Line began as a clubhouse joke in 1979 when from mid April to mid May George Brett's batting average dropped from .341 on 4/17 to .244 on 5/11. Teammates chided Brett that his average was going to drop below the Mendoza Line in the Sunday newspaper's listing of major league batters (older members remember how the batters were listed by average in the Sunday papers before the internet). On May 11th Mendoza was batting .202 that year. I believe that .200 became the generic Mendoza line.

The legend of the Mendoza Line was popularized in the early days of ESPN by Chris Berman, who attributed the reference to Brett. Although the original Mendoza line in the Sunday newspaper may still be used to describe mediocrity in baseball, dropping below the Mendoza Line can be applied to mediocrity in any field and hence the legendary status of the term.

Interestingly Mendoza ended his career with a batting average of .215, somewhat above the generic Mendoza Line. He was also known to be an above average fielder.

With this background who can argue that the 1980 Mendoza card imaged below is not undervalued at 2 cents.

Good stuff!

[GasHouseGang]

I can't get as poetic about it as Frank, but I'd say Stan Musial has to be on that list. Most of his cards are quite reasonable yet he was considered one of the greats of the game. The only reason his cards aren't more highly valued is he didn't play in New York.

Some quotes about Stan from those that saw him play:
An outfield composed of (Ty) Cobb, (Tris) Speaker and (Babe) Ruth, even with Ruth, lacks the combined power of (Joe) DiMaggio, (Stan) Musial and (Ted) Williams." - Connie Mack

"He could have hit .300 with a fountain pen." - Joe Garagiola

"He didn't hit a homer in his last at-bat; he hit a single. He didn't hit in 56 straight games. He married his high school sweetheart and stayed married to her, never married a Marilyn Monroe. He didn't play with the sheer joy and style that goes alongside Willie Mays' name. None of those easy things are there to associate with Stan Musial. All Musial represents is more than two decades of sustained excellence and complete decency as a human being." - Sportscaster Bob Costas in ESPN SportsCentury (ESPN)

"How good was Stan Musial? He was good enough to take your breath away." - Broadcaster Vin Scully

And those that had to pitch to him:
""I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe

"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine

"Once (Stan) Musial timed your fastball, your infielders were in jeopardy." - Warren Spahn

[Chris D.]

My father-in-law had the good fortune of being at a wedding where Stan Musial was also in attendance. Stan was as gracious as can be and shared some great stories. I wish I was with my wife at that point. I might have been able to tag along.

[esd10]

my vote is for jake duabert one of the best players from the teens but does not get the respect he deserves.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

If you're talking about titans of the game that are undervalued, I'd say DiMaggio.

The guy hit for average, hit for power, was an amazing fielder, and he was the glue that held a Yankee team together between two dynasties. He was the bridge from Lou to Mick and he could've been even better without the war.

Same could be said for Ted... Only differences are... 1 Ted wasn't nearly the defensive player Joe D was... 2 Teds cards carry a significant premium.

I don't think there's another guy out there that was better, whose cards you can get for less

I think you read my mind regarding the most undervalued at the moment. I think that's because the primary focus of the hobby is on the pre-World War I cards, and Ted and Joe (what, 11 penants in 13 years, and ten world championships, just going by memory?) will have their day when that focus shifts, as it inevitably will, and their best and/or rarer cards look like real bargains in comparison to the giants in the former group.

Frank, I love it!!!

Thanks for posting,

Larry

[drc]

If you're talking about within the collecting world, the biggest names would include Babe Ruth, Joe Jackson and Mickey Mantle would be the big three.

[sycks22]

I know he's not pre-war, but how about Jim Thome? Over 600 hrs and nobody has mentioned his name with the PEDs era. He is the left handed Killebrew of our time with a bunch of power and .250 - .260 avg

[Theoldprofessor]

There's no point in ranking them, so here's my list of ten:

HANK AARON
TY COBB
JOE DIMAGGIO
LOU GEHRIG
JOE JACKSON
MICKEY MANTLE
CHRISTY MATHEWSON
WILLIE MAYS
SATCHEL PAIGE
JACKIE ROBINSON
BABE RUTH
TED WILLIAMS

Yeah, I know that's twelve. Maybe we could put pitchers in their own category. After all, I had to leave MUSIAL and CLEMENTE off my list so MATHEWSON and PAIGE could go on. And since I saw them both play, that was really hard. And who goes off to make room for CY YOUNG, SANDY KOUFAX, GREG MADDUX and BOB GIBSON?

But it might keep the discussion going. I'd really like to see other lists.

[David W]

I based my list on what retired players names a typical 10-12 year old today recognizes (my 10 year old son, and 12 year old daughter).

Hank Aaron
Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Cy Young - due to the Cy Young Award
Roberto Clemente - due to his untimely death

I think that's a pretty good list

[dstraate]

I might be a bit crossed up, but if you're going with the most legendary players IN THE HOBBY, Wagner's absolutely got to be on that list. Along with David's suggestion of Ruth, Jackson, and Mantle.

If you're going for an all time Top 10 thing, then I want to play. No particular order

Ruth
Aaron
Cobb
Mays
Gehrig
Maddux
Jeter
Johnson
Mathewson
Ripken

[Leon]

There was only one...

http://youtu.be/HBOQfr2Lrno


.
.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Jimmy Foxx
Rogers Hornsby

[ls7plus]

Thanks for the video, Leon. Great stuff! Both the Babe and Jimmy Foxx really launched their whole bodies into the pitch (hence the expression "swinging from the heels")--I wonder how that approach would work today, with so many pitchers able to make the ball break both ways, with slider, cutter, curve and circle-type change, that moves like a screwball, but without the wear and tear on the elbow? Or would these types of sluggers have to adopt more of a Miguel Cabrera/Joe DiMaggio approach, with a wider stance, and little more than a lift of the heel of the front foot for a stride?

Thanks for a great site,

Larry

[Hankphenom]

Talk about an overused term, often confused with great. Great isn't good enough to be legendary--there have to be actual "legends" told about them, stories that seem to defy the limits of human ability: the Babe's power; Johnson's speed; Cobb's fire; Robinson's determination; DiMaggio's grace (married Monroe!); William's eyesight (and military service); Gehrig's class; Jackson's perfidy; Mays's hustle; Mantle's--dare I say it--beauty. Every one of these will still be known by most baseball fans 100 years from now, while many other really great players will have been largely forgotten.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Talk about an overused term, often confused with great. Great isn't good enough to be legendary--there have to be actual "legends" told about them, stories that seem to defy the limits of human ability: the Babe's power; Johnson's speed; Cobb's fire; Robinson's determination; DiMaggio's grace (married Monroe!); William's eyesight (and military service); Gehrig's class; Jackson's perfidy; Mays's hustle; Mantle's--dare I say it--beauty. Every one of these will still be known by most baseball fans 100 years from now, while many other really great players will have been largely forgotten.

Awesomely put, Hank, and truly poetic. I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one!

Best regards,

Larry

[Clutch-Hitter]

Great video. Legend?

Ruth's home-run spray chart away games 1921 and 1927, with the black dots representing balls that were not home runs:

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Leon

There was only one...

http://youtu.be/HBOQfr2Lrno


.
.

The last clip of that collection is fantastic. The pose, the crowd rising and then the trot.

[alanu]

ruth
cobb
gehrig
ott
ted williams
aaron
mantle
mays
rose
nolan ryan

11-roy hobbs

[Donscards]

Here are my top 10=====1.Babe Ruth 2. Ty Cobb 3. Lou Gehrig 4. Joe Jackson 5. Ted Williams 6. Joe Jackson 7. Mickey Mantle 8. Willie Mays 9. Joe D. 10 Sandy Koufax Sorry Hank

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Here are my top 10=====1.Babe Ruth 2. Ty Cobb 3. Lou Gehrig 4. Joe Jackson 5. Ted Williams 6. Joe Jackson 7. Mickey Mantle 8. Willie Mays 9. Joe D. 10 Sandy Koufax Sorry Hank

No sweat. Koufax was the best I ever saw.

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Here are my top 10=====1.Babe Ruth 2. Ty Cobb 3. Lou Gehrig 4. Joe Jackson 5. Ted Williams 6. Joe Jackson 7. Mickey Mantle 8. Willie Mays 9. Joe D. 10 Sandy Koufax Sorry Hank

Great list... Great.

BUT I feel like ere has to be a dead ball era pitcher in there somewhere...

Walter, Cy, Addie, Matty... Hard to pick one guy, they all have merit...but they pitched with very little relief, on shorter rest, etc etc...

Also, hard to comprehend that not one player of the last 50 years was top ten good. Though I couldn't pick one name so maybe that's right...

Edit:

On second though... Ken Griffey Jr. The guy had a monster career, that should have been even better. Even with multiple lost seasons to injury, he was arguably the best fielder in the game for nearly a decade, and he was clearly one of the greatest power hitters in history. To think what he could've been if healthy is almost unthinkable

[vintagerookies51]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Here are my top 10=====1.Babe Ruth 2. Ty Cobb 3. Lou Gehrig 4. Joe Jackson 5. Ted Williams 6. Joe Jackson 7. Mickey Mantle 8. Willie Mays 9. Joe D. 10 Sandy Koufax Sorry Hank

You have Joe Jackson twice.. although he was a great player!

[alanu]

Originally Posted by alanu

ruth
cobb
gehrig
ott
ted williams
aaron
mantle
mays
rose
nolan ryan

11-roy hobbs

In retrospect, Jackie Robinson should probably be somewhere on my list... in place of Rose

[aljurgela]

i would say oscar charleston... and with far less total cards than 50 (billiken, aguilitas, tomas gutierrez)... still represents the best value to me...

al