Fake Ty Cobb

[Case12]

Hi all. Don't know if this useful for bad exemplars, but here is a fake Ty Cobb. I bought it in 98 at a show in Dallas. It used to be greenish, but has since faded. I studied his signature and thought I had it right. Displayed it for years.
A few years ago I decided to get some opinions. P.A.A.S struggled but eventually came back no. PSA took lots of extra time, but also came back no. I knew Wayne Stivers (a UACC contact) take a look and he eventually said no. - with certainty
So, I put it away in my closet for years. I know it's fake now.
Thoughts on what I missed? It bugged me because I spent so much time on his auto, and still got it wrong.
Thanks, Casey

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Case12

Hi all. Don't know if this useful for bad exemplars, but here is a fake Ty Cobb. I bought it in 98 at a show in Dallas. It used to be greenish, but has since faded. I studied his signature and thought I had it right. Displayed it for years.
A few years ago I decided to get some opinions. P.A.A.S struggled but eventually came back no. PSA took lots of extra time, but also came back no. I knew Wayne Stivers (a UACC contact) take a look and he eventually said no. - with certainty
So, I put it away in my closet for years. I know it's fake now.
Thoughts on what I missed? It bugged me because I spent so much time on his auto, and still got it wrong.
Thanks, Casey

The paraph is wrong. That's the first thing that jumped out at me.

Fun fact: Paraphs were usually added to signatures in the old days in order to prevent forgeries.

[Case12]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

The paraph is wrong. That's the first thing that jumped out at me.

Fun fact: Paraphs were usually added to signatures in the old days in order to prevent forgeries.

Interesting. I will look at that now. Thanks!

[Case12]

Up then down and over is wrong - should be down then up and over. Is that what you are thinking? (That's seems to be what I saw in most exemplars...and hallofshame article)

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Case12

Up then down and over is wrong - should be down then up and over. Is that what you are thinking? (That's seems to be what I saw in most exemplars...and hallofshame article)

Cobb had multiple versions. 99% of all authentic examples will have one of these types (see image).

You have to try to understand what Cobb was trying to do. He finished the last "b" and swung the pen out to the right for a quick moment to gain momentum for the leftward sweep that went out past the "T" in Ty (sometimes by a lot). He would then break hard back to the right in a quick, sudden motion. Then he would finish it by meeting the line in the middle with a curl and almost always two dots. He probably did this motion 500,000 times in his life, who knows...Muscle memory is strong.

Yours goes left and loops in a rounded manner that I've never seen in a Cobb signature. The ending then disappears somewhere near the center going towards the letters in the signature. Again, that is extremely atypical. The ending of Cobb also goes straight down.

[Stampsfan]

Wow Manny. Thank You!!!

So informative to us neophytes. Appreciate the effort in explaining things like this.

[Case12]

Intriguing. I have missed the importance of flow and intent. I read a lot about graphology in my early days, and took a more scientific view. Height, slant, gap, pressure...when looking at many signatures (and with fewer exemplars than these days on the internet.) I actually did what you said with my hand and can feel the difference from the fake one. Learning feel and intent of the original signer must take a lot of practice!!!

[Case12]

And feel/intent of each move of the signature adding many to learn..