Response to Allegations

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Hey Dan, is that really necessary? You demand an apology from Adam for making an honest mistake about believing someone else's post is yours - and then you have the balls to type that?

As for your claim that "I think O'Keefe got word that Mastro was being investigated and jumped into it," I think you'll find that such a mechanism is called r e p o r t i n g.

Regarding the issue of media fairness, actually I think they've been more than fair to me.

And lastly, I would ask that if you have anything to say to me that references anything other than baseball cards that you do so privately via email. Perhaps I was foolish to think that posters here would be capable of not airing my non-vintage baseball card life on the internet for all to see.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Jeff, perhaps you shouldn't have made it personal by insinuating that I was a conpiracy theorist. Why not address the issue that you completely ignored what I wrote earlier and instead made things up?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, with all respect, you are a conspiracy theorist when it comes to this article. And that was a smart editing job I should add. Let's just agree to disagree, alright?

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Oooh, the water's warm.

The story line itself of possible impropriety by an important auction house is intriguing enough, but not nearly so interesting as the by-play between Jeff and Dan.

For my penny, I would say that I understand Dan's feelings more easily.
I would guess that he has had only positive dealings with Mastro, enjoys the hobby, feels that the hobby's standing is better off for the class and style of vendor auction houses such as Mastro, and would like to believe that he can participate without any associated grimey criminal behaviour mucking with his enjoyed pastime.

Jeff, I'm not exactly too sure of your interests.......your desire to "plug" and "push" the idea of possible criminal activity as entirely plausible could only really be coming from the opposite place to Dan's. Somehow, sowing the seeds of doubt and mistrust of Mastros actions in the hobby is validated to you - by I guess the desire for collectors to not be "blinded" to some possible home truths.....
I can't however see, that anyone's enjoyment of this hobby can be helped by such conjecture and promulgating minus the public airing of cold hard facts and subsequent charges. Can any of us go now, and happily bid on items at said auction houses and not be slightly queasy with the concerns aired and harped upon in the story and by yourself?

Me, I'm going to treat the issue as a complete unknown, and enjoy my hobby as best my wallet can manage.
Oh, and I'll take Mastro's cataglog, merchandise, and insane fees, over anyone elses in the industry right now, though they all get my due fawning and glassy eyed admiration!

Daniel

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Jeff, the editing was out of respect for you....I shouldn't have posted it and I apologize. But you're still wrong. I am the furthest thing from a conspircy theorist in this instance. I don't think you can ignore the fact that O'Keefe has been unfair towards this industry in the past.

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Posted By: Scott B.

Is this the reason why Robert Edwards left Mastro? If that's the case, obviously REA is a lot more honest than Mastro. I always wonder why in REA ads he always specify his auction use honest bid system.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

From my experience, both Dan and Jeff are reasonable and inteligent people. In this case, they have different points of view to the situation. Dan had first hand experience with one of the items they wrote about, so I understand where he is coming from.

This article has little in the way of specifics, so I think it's premature to argue one way or the other over the issue.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, I hear your point but I guess I don't know enough about the writer to pass judgement. I guess what I am having a hard time understanding is why would anyone just be against the entire hobby in all its forms? It's not like the vintage card and memorabilia industry is poisoning our drinking water. And now I'm being accused of perhaps having some sort of ulterior motive which is ludicrous. I've spent a ton of cash at auction houses and have never had a problem. What I am biased against, however, is fraud. Simply put, I don't like being defrauded. I brought this article up simply because of the allegations of fraud which I thought were important enough to be aired out here - isn't that what this forum is for? I was somewhat taken aback by some of the responses that seemingly ignored the fact that a law enforcement official stated on the record that Mastro was involved in fraud - and instead blamed the writer of the article for simply reporting what was told to him, on the record, by on the record sources. O'Keefe may have a beef with the industry but he was not the one who reviewed Mastro's finanical records, the prosecutor did. Unlike many of the forum members, additionally, I am a true collector and have NEVER made a nickel of my income via this hobby. The only stuff I ever sell are cards I've upgraded. So, I'm hardly in a position to be accused of having my own bias. Hell, I plan on bidding in Mastro's upcoming auction! That being said, I won't put in a max bid until Mastro is given a clean bill of health.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I think hobby news is part of O'Keefe's beat so to say....at least he writes a lot of stories regarding the problems with the industry. My beef with him is that he purposely ignored facts that were contrary to what he wrote about because he would have had to taken a mea culpa. I just don't think he can be unbiased in reporting a story concerning Mastro from my own personal experience in the past. That doesn't mean that I think there's no story there....but this time I think shooting the messenger isn't such a bad thing.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Again, Dan, you need to stop blaming O'Keefe -- it was the Ohio prosecutor who went on the record to report Mastro's fraud! What evidence does anyone have that Mastro is being scapegoated by the state of Ohio????

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I don't really have a problem with O'Keefe initially reporting this, but will he follow up and how will he follow up? I personally don't believe he will be fair, but that's my opinion formed by his past action/inaction.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

For the record, a recent O'Keafe article said postive things about MEARS, including that that their LOAs are highly respected in the hobby and he used their opinion on a piece of memorabilia that was the subject of the article. So the author has also been positive about subjects he has criticized.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Re the reputation of the hobby: This is a smelly, sleazy disgusting hobby...sometimes. You need look no further than WIWAG, Operation Foul Ball and the myriad fake cards on ebay on any given day for proof. It is also a great, wholesome, fun hobby...sometimes. Which makes it no better and no worse than most human endeavors. I think the news posted in this post is critical to collectors who participate in Mastro auctions, which seems to include everyone here.

Re O'Keefe: Say what you want about the man's prior reporting but that does not hide the facts reported this time. A state official is alleging that Mastro engaged in fraudulent conduct. That allegation is newsworthy. Mastro denies it. That denial is newsworthy. Dan, your concern that O'Keefe might somehow later on show a bias in handling the story is no reason to "shoot the messenger". We have enough pre-emptive wars already.

Re Robert Edwards: Only the people involved could explain their split. As far as the Robert Edwards bidding system goes, of course he touts it--it is called "promotion". The man is trying to compete for the public's business. What do you expect him to tout as a selling point for bidders, poor service and dishonesty? The inference of a critique of Mastro implicit in the promotion is rather narrow, wouldn't you say, given how many auctioneers there are out there who could be the subjects of the promotion. Plus, duh, of course he is criticizing his competitors; how else is he supposed to convince you to use his services?

Re Mastro: I bid in their auctions and I consign to their auctions. I've never heard of anyone not getting their winnings except by loss in transit, so I don't see anything unsafe about bidding there. Just assume you will pay your highest figure and bid accordingly. It is so simple.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Since I now know that Mr. O'Keeffe is reading this thread I have a question: Why did you turn down the offer to review the evidence firsthand?

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061114/ap_on_re_us/investment_scandal

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Posted By: barrysloate

Is there any connection between the recent thread about Mastro raising its buyer's premium and this old one being dredged up? Or did this news just break yesterday? Either way, I like the defense attorney's remark that Noe was just the victim of bad bookkeeping. Isn't that the same excuse that every one of the Enron scoundrels used as well as all the other CEO's who are now going to spend the rest of their lives in prison? Does anybody ever take responsibility for his own actions, or is it always somebody else's fault?

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Posted By: Jeffrey Lichtman

Oh, Barry, plenty of times defendants take responsibility for their actions instead of blaming others - when they receive a plea agreement to their liking.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I rest my case...and on a related note, did you see that O.J. Simpson is writing a book explaining that if he really were the killer, this is how he would have committed the crimes. O.J., on the chance you read this board, please spare us. Ink and paper are scarce commodities and this is a terrible waste of both. We all know the other guy did it, and a day doesn't go by where you are not hot on his trail.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Just heard on the radio that Simpson will appear on Fox TV explaining how he would have done it, had he done it.
The start of a lucrative promo tour. "At long last Sir, have you no shame?"

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Posted By: ramram

I hope the Goldmans can reap any of the profits from OJ's book but I'm sure he has that covered.

Rob M.

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Posted By: Bob

News of the possibility of a substantial profit came a day after a former GOP fundraiser who played a role in the party's Election Day defeat was convicted of stealing from the fund.>

Now if we can figure out how to undo the theft of Florida in the 2004 election...

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

it is okay to find an ERROR in something ,but to question ones integrity and then act like you werent one questioning a situation
....better off listening to baby talk !

there are weird people in society and they get in cars too !

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Hey Leon,

I was the underbidder against Hal on a 19th century Boston team Cabinet. I ran it up from 12K to like 18K before I stopped. It turned out that 18K was his max bid.. JC

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

think you have your fake Republican conspiracy theory dates mixed........2000 was the year of the hanging chad in Florida.....2004 was when that horse-faced guy lost to Bush.....

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Posted By: barrysloate

It was 2000, but "fake" conspiracy. You need Florida for the presidency and your brother is the governor...yikes, I don't like them apples!

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Posted By: David Vargha

Notice how for the most part when the GOP loses close races like Allen in VA (where he could have gotten a mandatory recount by law) that they concede. Whereas the Dems for the most part see a freaking conspiracy behind every loss and whine and wail. Hey, Al Gore lost in 2000 fair and square. Get over it!

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: barrysloate

I got over it a week after it happened. I've learned to take the good with the bad. It's a part of history now. Fair and square? We'll never know.

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Posted By: leon

This is the last post in this thread about politics. Anymore will be summarily deleted. Maybe I should have a link to a political forum on this one? (rhetorical question please don't answer)....That way people could get their arguing out of their systems over there....It's been so nice the last few days on the board....please ...back to cards...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- I agree and I apologize. I tried to slip this in while you were still asleep. I was wrong and take full responsibility for my post. I was done either way

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The journalistic "media" in this country has degenerated to the lowest of the low
as a profession. Whether it's the print or the electronic media....90 % of them are
comprised of "hyper, rush-to-judgement, superficial, liars". And, it doesn't matter
whether it is world news or sports media types....they come out of the same mold.

So, anyone who talks to them is a fool......and I will end this by quoting my 20-year
old Grandson's very astute comment

"the biggest factor responsible for dividing Americans in this country is not politics.....
but the News Media"

[calvindog]

Hey, good stuff.