1859 college baseball-plain dress

[Collector46227]

I have a photo album dated 1862 from Williams College. In this album are (5) individual photos of players (in plain dress) that played in the very first college baseball game played in 1859 between Williams College and Amherst.

I wondered if anyone would be interested. The photos are signed and provenance is available to document the authenticity. The game itself is well documented and easy to research.

I will wait to see what response is given but can post additional pictures upon request.

I also am not sure what price these become available at. I have been given broad range of value.

Thanks,

[Leon]

This new member did everything right and abided by my requests. I am a pushover for helping when folks do things the right way (per board rules). I had some long talks on the phone with him so figure maybe we can get him some additional thoughts on the main forum.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Collector46227

I have a photo album dated 1862 from Williams College. In this album are (5) individual photos of players (in plain dress) that played in the very first college baseball game played in 1859 between Williams College and Amherst.

I wondered if anyone would be interested. The photos are signed and provenance is available to document the authenticity. The game itself is well documented and easy to research.

I will wait to see what response is given but can post additional pictures upon request.

I also am not sure what price these become available at. I have been given broad range of value.

Thanks,

That looks like a picture of a page out of a book, not a photo album. It will be much more interesting when scans of the photos are posted.

[Leon]

Adding pics for our new member...

[Runscott]

Now you've got my interest.

Unfortunately, I would have to recommend that you consign them through one of the large auction houses - these are pretty special.

[DixieBaseball]

- WOW.

[bigfish]

This is very nice. Consigning this would be a smart move.

[GaryPassamonte]

Are those actual oval photographic portraits? Is the image pictured to the right of the book also a photograph? If these are actual photographs, I would be interested.

[Collector46227]

These are photographs and they are autographed.

[GaryPassamonte]

Although it is nice to have the images signed, I'm not sure great value is added. If the players were well known it would be a different story. Interesting item.
Please post additional pictures if possible.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Although it is nice to have the images signed, I'm not sure great value is added. If the players were well known it would be a different story. Interesting item.
Please post additional pictures if possible.

Original poster sent one more in another email after the first batch. Since you asked, here ya go, Gary. I hope some other 19th century guys will chime in too...LL

[Collector46227]

Additionally, there are the fifty and sixty year published reports that establishes each of these players as participating in the game and also individually assigns each one of the students with the accomplishments achieved during college and the years that followed.

This individual accomplishment specifically documents the attendance in this game.

[oldjudge]

Interesting item; I would be interested. Please keep us informed about how you decide to market it.

Thanks--Jay

[Michael B]

Those look like albumens glued to a thicker mat board or paper. This was common for some of the early college yearbooks. The frameline is printed on the backing and the photo glued to the inside. I have seen these for West Point, Yale, Princeton and a few other schools.

[bmarlowe1]

This was the game - sharing billing with chess. If I understand it right, the book above says the names of the players were not recorded- but here they are in the box score. I see Blagden and Parker depicted above listed in the box score below, but the others depicted above apparently did not play in that game..

[GaryPassamonte]

Mark- I believe all five played in the second game on 7/2.

[Collector46227]

When I spoke with Williams, they claimed that the "yearbook" did not have any images and that the students would hire photo albums privately and individually. This album which these salt photos were taken out of belonged to Francis Snow, he later became one of the original three faculty members of the University of Kansas and served as Chancellor there for many years.

[Collector46227]

This is a photo of Frank "Francis" H. Snow that was referred to earlier in the postings.

[Collector46227]

This is the published information.

Kind of cool……13 players were selected from each team……..they were selected by ballot by the student body of each school. You had to play the entire game and substitution was only if you were declared disabled. Robert Beecher was the pitcher for Williams, he did hurt his arm but could not leave the game or be substituted, and instead he had to trade positions with another player from the field.

Neither team wore uniforms but the Williams players sported club belts. Each team provided a baseball and a bat. The baseball was a lead pellet wound with yarn and then covered by calfskin. An inning consisted of one out per team but the game still took a very long time it started at 11;00 AM and finished around 2:30.

There was of course a recess between the fifth and sixth innings much like in cricket.

I want one of these club belts if someone has one!!! : )-

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Collector46227

Neither team wore uniforms but the Williams players supported club belts.

The club belts would have supported the players. The players would have 'sported' the belts It was a symbiotic relationship.

(...since Barry isn't paying attention)

[Collector46227]

As the heading read:

Williams and Amherst
Baseball and Chess
Muscle and Mind

There was a chess match the day after the baseball game. Three of the players that played in these matches are listed as E.S. Brewster, Henry Anstice Jr. and Frank "Francis" H. Snow

Williams was not expected to win the baseball game, the Amherst team was made up of older players and it was noted they were more physical then the Williams team, however Williams was expected to win the chess match. This proved to be wrong as Amherst was victorious on both counts. The celebration of the doubleheader victory for Amherst lasted through the evening and carried on to the next day which was July 4th.

Here are the chess players:

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

How did you get your hands on this?

[Collector46227]

As the story goes........

These were obtained from an individual who had quite a large collection of items. They had been stored in the attic for well over 60 years and forgotten only to resurface recently and became available. They are not directly related to the families ancestory.

Not knowing what was truly in this small portion of what I obtained I was pleasantly surprised to learn this connection and the history that had been captured!

[Collector46227]

According to the Fiftieth Anniversary Report, E.S. Brewster was Williams College star baseball player and athlete. He had become ill and was not able to play in the first game but did play in the second game.

Williams College reportedly won the second game held one year later........1860

He was also a mathematical genius and was reported to have been able to play , blindfolded, several games of chess at one time. I wonder how they lost.

He died at the age of 21 after entering into the war.

[jhs5120]

Can we get the paper tested?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Wow... What an absolutely gorgeous historic piece. Thank you for sharing.

[Runscott]

I have a really hard time believing that none of the major auction houses are interested in this. They want to make money and this would be a moneymaker for almost any of them.

[Collector46227]

They are all calling........

As for the testing of the paper. Is there such a thing and where would you have this done.

I am 100% sure of the authenticity of the collection.

[Collector46227]

There was a comment made about paper testing. Is this something that is typically done? Or as long as the provenance supports the item it becomes unnecessary?

Input is appreciated.

[smokelessjoe]

Hi Collector46227,

Please do not be concerned with any sort of testing or chemical analysis etc... This is exactly what I was afraid of when this was brought up... There is no need for you to do any testing - something that I think was blown way out of proportion.

You have nothing to worry about with concern to the authenticity your photos...

Shawn

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Collector46227

There was a comment made about paper testing. Is this something that is typically done? Or as long as the provenance supports the item it becomes unnecessary?

Input is appreciated.

Each item has to be looked at individually, and common sense has to be used when it comes to deciding what type of tests are appropriate. Value and rarity aren't the only determining factors.

Based on what you've shown us, I think you're good just sending it to a major auction house as-is.

[CarltonHendricks]

Wow what an interesting piece!! I'll have to pop in on this side more often!...Yeah I'd certainly think a paper test would be moot....just based on eyeballing the photos I'm not seeing anything to suggest its not right...In fact it couldn't look anymore right...unless China's now popping out salt prints and embossed Williams College Class of 1862 albums LOL...

[Collector46227]

Thanks for the advice about the testing. There will be an anouncement very soon as to what the plan is for this collection.

[Collector46227]

Many of you have SOLD sports memorabilia.

I would like to hear if these were primarily good experiences.

Is sending them to auction the best avenue?

What is the est venue or auction house?

Value your opinion.

[Collector46227]

I have been asked by some to provide better images. Here is my attempt to do so

[Collector46227]

Brewster

[Collector46227]

Nason

[Collector46227]

Parker

[Collector46227]

Parker

[Collector46227]

Rogers

[Collector46227]

Sawyer

[Collector46227]

Size of photos

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Collector46227

Sawyer

jean luc picard from the starship enterprise played old time baseball?

[Collector46227]

I don't know what that is supposed to mean?

[RCMcKenzie]

I believe that was a trekkie joke. To answer your other question, if I found this item, I would consign it to one of the auction houses that advertise here.

[cubsfan-budman]

Sawyer looks like Patrick Stewart.

[Collector46227]

I do see the resemblance of Jean luc and sawyer.......

Thanks on both counts.

[irishdenny]

REA would be a perfect fit for this item... I'm sure Rob & Brian Might even move mountains to get it into this years auction... However, If it couldn't be one of the featured pieces this year, Than I would wait til Next Years Auction!

As Always...

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

REA would be a perfect fit for this item... I'm sure Rob & Brian Might even move mountains to get it into this years auction... However, If it couldn't be one of the featured pieces this year, Than I would wait til Next Years Auction!

As Always...

According to recent posts REA is actually doing a fall auction this year, so you wouldn't have to wait too long.

[Collector46227]

I am all ears for where this belongs I have not heard from REA