7 inning pitchers rule

[Peter_Spaeth]

Classic. Sale was cruising through 7 -- 12Ks, 4 hits, 1 run. Of course, he has to come out because oh my God he had thrown 114 pitchers. Reliever immediately gets tagged.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Classic. Sale was cruising through 7 -- 12Ks, 4 hits, 1 run. Of course, he has to come out because oh my God he had thrown 114 pitchers. Reliever immediately gets tagged.

114 pitches is quite a bit in today's game. I wouldn't call it a 7 inning rule, but more of the pitch count rule. Yeah he was probably pitching well, but apparently he wasn't very efficient/the opponent made him work. With him being one of the best arms in baseball, and it being the regular season, I would have pulled him, too.

Through 7 innings, for a pitcher to justifiably continue, they should be at no more than 100 pitches. That's just today's game.

Now, the argument can be made that players today pitch too much when their young, and too little as they age. That's why arms get blown out more often in today's game. Not sure we'll ever see that theory tested, but it is an interesting theory.

[frankbmd]

What would happen in today's game if you had a new rookie on your team named Warren Spahn and you were the manager?

Warren pitched more than 240 innings for 17 consecutive seasons and recorded 382 complete games. He also pitched effectively well into his 40s and never had Tommy John surgery.

After seven innings, if he told me he was okay, I would probably ignore the pitch count. Wouldn't you?

I also think there is an ample supply of relief pitchers capable of pitching two innings. With 7-8 one inning wonders in today's bullpens, there are over 200 candidates.

[frankbmd]

I would also add after seeing today's game evolve for more than sixty years, there will come a time in the not too distant future when starters will be pulled routinely before completing 5 innings. Perish the thought of having to face the leadoff man three times.

As a result starters will be able to qualify as losing pitchers, but will never be able to win a game. All will have records of 0-X. Imagine that on a Cooperstown plaque.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

114 pitches is quite a bit in today's game. I wouldn't call it a 7 inning rule, but more of the pitch count rule. Yeah he was probably pitching well, but apparently he wasn't very efficient/the opponent made him work. With him being one of the best arms in baseball, and it being the regular season, I would have pulled him, too.

Through 7 innings, for a pitcher to justifiably continue, they should be at no more than 100 pitches. That's just today's game.

Now, the argument can be made that players today pitch too much when their young, and too little as they age. That's why arms get blown out more often in today's game. Not sure we'll ever see that theory tested, but it is an interesting theory.

The NL they do things the opposite sometimes.....they afraid to pull a pitcher when he is at bat with bases loaded with 2 outs in a close ball game in the 5th inning....and he strike out...then in the 6th inning he comes into pitch and gets blasted...what was the purpose...might as well had a relief pitcher come in and had a 27 percent chance at least for a pitch hitter to bat instead of the starting pitcher....happened with jeff hoffman the other day against the marlins...they were afraid to pull this great pitcher in the 5th inning....

anytime i got a 27 percent chance or more to score 2 runs or more in a tie game or down by 2 in the 5th inning or later.....i would take the chance more than the zero times they do it in the NL if the pitch count is still low.. hench they afraid to sit the pitcher..while in the AL they are afraid to keep him out there

[egri]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Classic. Sale was cruising through 7 -- 12Ks, 4 hits, 1 run. Of course, he has to come out because oh my God he had thrown 114 pitchers. Reliever immediately gets tagged.

And of course he didn't get any run support. This happens with him a lot; he pitches a gem and either doesn't get any run support and loses, or leaves with a lead and the bullpen blows it.

[Cmount76]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Classic. Sale was cruising through 7 -- 12Ks, 4 hits, 1 run. Of course, he has to come out because oh my God he had thrown 114 pitchers. Reliever immediately gets tagged.

^^ Is the exact reason Young's career win record will never be broken!

[Peter_Spaeth]

These dudes are already on every fifth day as opposed to every fourth which was the norm for most of baseball history. And now for the most part they can't go past the seventh inning? I continue to find it baffling.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

These dudes are already on every fifth day as opposed to every fourth which was the norm for most of baseball history. And now for the most part they can't go past the seventh inning? I continue to find it baffling.

They can, but they don't because they cost so much money, are the riskiest for injury and have such good relief specialization . (well, when used properly which most managers still screw up)

Teams have figured out more and more how to optimize production. It's been shown that that even having a starter might be a bad idea for team wins relative to using a group of relievers who never face a lineup more than once per game. In 30 years, the starting pitcher may be as dead as the spitballer and the slap hitter

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

They can, but they don't because they cost so much money, are the riskiest for injury and have such good relief specialization . (well, when used properly which most managers still screw up)

Teams have figured out more and more how to optimize production. It's been shown that that even having a starter might be a bad idea for team wins relative to using a group of relievers who never face a lineup more than once per game. In 30 years, the starting pitcher may be as dead as the spitballer and the slap hitter

I know it's anecdotal but it seems I have seen innumerable games where the starter is on cruise control, gets yanked because of the pitch count, and the pen immediately gets shelled. Now I guess the comeback to that is yeah but the starter isn't nearly as effective past a point and might have been shelled anyhow.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I know it's anecdotal but it seems I have seen innumerable games where the starter is on cruise control, gets yanked because of the pitch count, and the pen immediately gets shelled. Now I guess the comeback to that is yeah but the starter isn't nearly as effective past a point and might have been shelled anyhow.

You can just look at the long sample size of what a lineup does against the same pitcher in a given game on their 2nd 3rd and 4th time up and you will see a long term trend of batting average going up and up.

Heck its usually pretty hard for a pitcher to face the same lineup in back to back starts