Trading with Dealers at Card Shows?

[JollyElm]

I'm very late to the party, but thought I'd chime in since there's a show tomorrow and I've been thinking about this exact situation.

I assume most of this has been covered, so pardon me if I’m repeating anyone else’s thoughts.

The few times I was able to secure decent trades at shows was the result of a few things, namely:

1. Work the room and get chatting. Find personable dealers who enjoy interacting with collectors. These are the guys who are usually most open to talking about trades.

2. You have to know (and more importantly, accept) that there is no way in high heck you can expect to get an even swap. Dealers are trying to make money, so you have to know the negotiations won't be like dealing with a fellow collector where you both get the 'same' value back. They want to sell and make a profit at the show (and the shows that follow). They need to get the (way) better end of any deal.

3. Taking #2 into account, you have to offer them (great) cards that are pretty liquid, ones they know they could 'easily' sell at this show or the next. You have to avoid offering anything that would basically become 'dead inventory' on their table. They have no use for that stuff.

4. Find great (and easily sellable) cards of yours that are worth a heckuva lot more than what you paid for them originally. For instance, say you have a Mantle you picked up a long while back for a fraction of what it is worth now. If you're looking to land (without spending money on) a sweet card you really want that is currently worth less than your Mick, then you would be more apt to swap it at a 'loss,' since you wouldn't actually be losing value considering what you paid for it. That sort of purchase timing is really the heart of the matter. Because, pretend instead that you recently bought that very Mantle and paid a pretty penny for it. If that were the case, there’s no way in heck you’d want to trade it at a significant loss. Same exact card, but completely different ways to look at its specific monetary value to you personally.

And yes, tomorrow I'll probably be doing all of this, but will come home without any trades made. It's the nature of the beast, but you gotta give it a go.

[Leon]

At the end of the day a deal is only good if both parties are happy. (Well, that's the way it's supposed to be, anyway.)

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'm very late to the party, but thought I'd chime in since there's a show tomorrow and I've been thinking about this exact situation.

I assume most of this has been covered, so pardon me if I’m repeating anyone else’s thoughts.

The few times I was able to secure decent trades at shows was the result of a few things, namely:

1. Work the room and get chatting. Find personable dealers who enjoy interacting with collectors. These are the guys who are usually most open to talking about trades.

2. You have to know (and more importantly, accept) that there is no way in high heck you can expect to get an even swap. Dealers are trying to make money, so you have to know the negotiations won't be like dealing with a fellow collector where you both get the 'same' value back. They want to sell and make a profit at the show (and the shows that follow). They need to get the (way) better end of any deal.

3. Taking #2 into account, you have to offer them (great) cards that are pretty liquid, ones they know they could 'easily' sell at this show or the next. You have to avoid offering anything that would basically become 'dead inventory' on their table. They have no use for that stuff.

4. Find great (and easily sellable) cards of yours that are worth a heckuva lot more than what you paid for them originally. For instance, say you have a Mantle you picked up a long while back for a fraction of what it is worth now. If you're looking to land (without spending money on) a sweet card you really want that is currently worth less than your Mick, then you would be more apt to swap it at a 'loss,' since you wouldn't actually be losing value considering what you paid for it. That sort of purchase timing is really the heart of the matter. Because, pretend instead that you recently bought that very Mantle and paid a pretty penny for it. If that were the case, there’s no way in heck you’d want to trade it at a significant loss. Same exact card, but completely different ways to look at its specific monetary value to you personally.

And yes, tomorrow I'll probably be doing all of this, but will come home without any trades made. It's the nature of the beast, but you gotta give it a go.

[Exhibitman]

It is all well and fine to theorize about selling a card to fund a buy but that doesn’t apply at a show unless you sell beforehand. Also, Some attendees have little cash but have cards so they only get new items if they trade.

[refz]

I still to this day have success at shows and here, FB etc trading. Doesn’t hurt to ask. I know who I can trade with and cannot and sometimes it sparks a new friendship. These are trading cards right? Not flipping cards?

I’m usually all for trading unless I need the $ for an extreme certain reason.

[Leon]

Nowadays, my buys are being paid for by giving consignments. I feel like somehwere in there I am losing ..

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is all well and fine to theorize about selling a card to fund a buy but that doesn’t apply at a show unless you sell beforehand. Also, Some attendees have little cash but have cards so they only get new items if they trade.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is all well and fine to theorize about selling a card to fund a buy but that doesn’t apply at a show unless you sell beforehand. Also, Some attendees have little cash but have cards so they only get new items if they trade.

Or you could do what I've sometimes stupidly done, go to shows with not a ton of cash, but Venmo & Paypal and find dealers who will accept that. Then after I've run myself into some good debt, I have to come home and sell to pay it off.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

2. You have to know (and more importantly, accept) that there is no way in high heck you can expect to get an even swap. Dealers are trying to make money, so you have to know the negotiations won't be like dealing with a fellow collector where you both get the 'same' value back. They want to sell and make a profit at the show (and the shows that follow). They need to get the (way) better end of any deal.

True. Among the things I traded away this past year in deals with dealers at shows and at shops were a Chrome Ohtani RC PSA 10, and a Trout Update PSA 9. I cringe to think of the actual percentage value I was given on them in trade, but I didn't care. I wanted vintage and came away with Mantle and Mays cards, so it was worth it to me.

[Leon]

It's usually easier when you know your trading partner, though I have a few friends it's not so easy with
.

Originally Posted by Luke

It's kind of like anything in life where you have to add value for someone if you want them to do a deal with you or help you out. I have a bunch of hobby friends who have already provided me a lot a value and I'll do lateral trades or whatever with them no problem. I have a few guys who offer me lots at prices where I can make a few bucks and they like that I pay immediately and don't haggle. Sometimes I add up what I'm getting and I'm not sure it's quite break-even but I'll say yes anyway because I figure the next batch will probably be a good buy.

I have a buddy who also sells stuff and a few times he and I have made a deal where one of us gets a very big card and the other gets a big stack of inventory. Probably neither of us would do that type of trade with a stranger but we knew the negotiations would be easy, and it has worked out great.

With a dealer you don't know, it's tougher. Just have to start by asking if they trade and see how they react. If they seem hesitant or not into it, probably try another dealer.

[wondo]

Had a great experience at the Philly Show this weekend doing a part cash / part trade deal with fellow board member, Howard Chasser. He always has some amazing offerings. I found an upgrade for my collection (both condition and variation) and offered the card being upgraded plus cash. Deal was done in less than a minute - I was ecstatic to get a great card and I'm assuming Howard was happy with the transaction from a dealer perspective. He even made some accommodations for payment.

Point being is that I was realistic in my expectations when offering, and Howard is a straight-forward no bullshit guy. Both attributes made the deal work. Thank you, Howard!

Now I gotta work on getting some cash together for that Stahl Meyer Mantle....

[raulus]

Originally Posted by wondo

Now I gotta work on getting some cash together for that Stahl Meyer Mantle....

By any chance, did you pick up different Stahl-Meyer from Howard?

[wondo]

Originally Posted by raulus

By any chance, did you pick up different Stahl-Meyer from Howard?

I did not - 1951 Ringside panel.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by wondo

I did not - 1951 Ringside panel.

salesman sample (8x) or pack-issued panel (2x)? Who'd you get?

[wondo]

Adam,

Traded a two-card panel Robinson / Micelli with $$$ for a higher grade two-card panel with Robinson / Lesnevich. I love oddball stuff.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wondo

Adam,

Traded a two-card panel Robinson / Micelli with $$$ for a higher grade two-card panel with Robinson / Lesnevich. I love oddball stuff.

I would always rather have a Lesnevich than a Micelli. Well done!
.

[ClementeFanOh]

This past weekend I obtained two cards completely in trade at a local show,
no cash on either side. I acquired a 51 Bowman Ted Williams and a 71 Topps
Thurman Munson with separate dealers. In both cases I "lost" the trade by
10% (ish) total value. In the case of Williams I gave up 2 cards (both "newer"
than the Ted too). For Munson it was a 1 for 1 trade in which I gave up a
basketball card (not my focus). There was no Sharks versus Jets, the Hatfields
and the McCoys stayed home too. Just size up your trading partner and behave
decently. It's not nearly as difficult or unusual as is being portrayed by some in
this thread, to trade at a show with a dealer.

Trent King

[Leon]

Trading with Dealers at Card Shows?

I guess I will find out this weekend. High prices on them as I only want to trade... I am doing it 100% for fun and I expect no sales or trades. (is that a low enough expectation?)

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Leon

Trading with Dealers at Card Shows?

I guess I will find out this weekend. High prices on them as I only want to trade... I am doing it 100% for fun and I expect no sales or trades. (is that a low enough expectation?)

Lots of "to die for" cards in your show cases, Leon. Very Nice!

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Lots of "to die for" cards in your show cases, Leon. Very Nice!

Agree. That 1904 McGraw is awesome. E104s, especially the Plank, aint half bad either (among many others)

[Snapolit1]

If you want to offer a dealer a card he can sell for $1000 for one of his $900 cards ….. yes, he will be a pleasant guy and it will be a very amicable transaction. He will be happy to do it again at the next show. He will look for you.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If you want to offer a dealer a card he can sell for $1000 for one of his $900 cards ….. yes, he will be a pleasant guy and it will be a very amicable transaction. He will be happy to do it again at the next show. He will look for you.

Price is less important than satisfaction. As long as both sides are pleased with the trade, it is a win-win.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Price is less important than satisfaction. As long as both sides are pleased with the trade, it is a win-win.

A good trade involves both pain and pleasure for both sides.

[ClementeFanOh]

Casey and Exhibitman- yep, you get it. Snapolit1- not sure what bleak locations you are frequenting, you are clearly very sour about trades. Trading is an obvious and common method of obtaining cards, for dealer and collector. Doesn’t work with everybody of course, but your vision is very narrow on this matter. If both parties are happy in a trade, it’s worth the time and “effort” (talking about cards counts as “effort” in this case). Trent King

[Exhibitman]

Yep. I would trade a mildly more expensive common card for a toughie I need for a set every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[wondo]

I likey

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

A good trade involves both pain and pleasure for both sides.

Where is the pain for a dealer getting a card with value of $100 for a card worth $90?

I get the fascination with the concept of trading. It’s largely a fantasy in the hobby. People trade so they can say they made a trade because it makes them feel good. And that’s fine. Dealers trade to make money.

Every single thing I’ve listed in BST the last few years one or more people have contacted me asking to trade. And I say sure make me an offer. And most of the time the offer is absurd. Just the reality of it.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Where is the pain for a dealer getting a card with value of $100 for a card worth $90?

I get the fascination with the concept of trading. It’s largely a fantasy in the hobby. People trade so they can say they made a trade because it makes them feel good. And that’s fine. Dealers trade to make money.

Every single thing I’ve listed in BST the last few years one or more people have contacted me asking to trade. And I say sure make me an offer. And most of the time the offer is absurd. Just the reality of it.

You're a dealer, I'm a collector, my comment is for collectors. A good trade with another collector usually involves cards that neither one wants to give up but desires the opposite card more, thus the pain. Nothing better than a good collector trade.

[ClementeFanOh]

Phil (Casey)- feels like playing tennis against the drapes, doesn't it?

Trent King

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Phil (Casey)- feels like playing tennis against the drapes, doesn't it?

Trent King

Haha, yes! When you are the guy with the tennis racket and the dealer is the drapes.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by wondo

I likey

Mee too!

My latest column is up and it is on this subject

[ClementeFanOh]

Today I attended yet another local show and traded successfully with a dealer set up there. I acquired a 55 Topps Gil Hodges and a 55 Bowman Roy Campy in new PSA slabs, and a raw 57 Topps Nellie Fox. There was no money exchanged, both parties happy and values very even on both sides. For something SNapolitano claims is a “fantasy”, the trade seemed awfully real Trent King

[Snapolit1]

Adam - enjoyed your blog post on the subject. Fair and balanced as one bogus news outlet likes to claim. Yout point is the same one I made, albeit maybe not in the assholish fashion I did. Regardless of your motives in trading, its always an economic transaction for the dealer paying rent for his table. Very unlikely the dealer is trading with you because he personally wants the card for his collection. He wants to sell it. And sometimes it might make sense for the dealer to engage in a trade for a lesser value card for other reasons like you offer. But the dealer is not trading with you because the trading thing is giving him a warm fuzzy feeling about those days of yore when he and his buddies met in his grandmothers basement in 1976 and traded cards. He's making a business decision. Economics 101.

[ClementeFanOh]

Snapolitano- It's not gonna be that easy, partner. It's also "Econ 101" for
the other party, and the "warm and fuzzy" comment is a non-starter. You're
reach exceeded your grasp on this one, you whiffed. Ignore me if you wish,
you are wrong here.

Trent King

[Andrew1975]

I traded for this E121 Ruth at the Philly Show. I gave up five cards (1951 Bowman Mays, 1957 Topps Bill Russell, M101-5 Honus Wagner [blank back], 1957 Topps Sandy Koufax, and 1921 Exhibits Walter Johnson), plus some cash. I am very pleased with the trade and believe that the dealer was very fair with the values he assigned to my cards. Could I have gotten more for them if I had sold them myself? Probably, a little more, but there would likely be fees/expenses associated with that also. I think from his perspective, he will be able to move the five cards he received, easier than the Ruth, and as a larger dealer, probably has the ability to make a little more on them than I could. I guess it worked out for both of us.




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[Exhibitman]

Really nice card.

[Kutcher55]

I have had some success making surprisingly fair trades with a dealer at a nearby monthly card show. The guy generally pays 80-90% range and his trades are even closer to market. If you factor in the ability to offload cards safely without having to deal with shipping costs and risks, it has worked out really nicely. Selling cards isn't always super easy. The best and easiest way is eBay but you are only getting 85% that way and so an in-person show transaction for similar value can work out well. Plus it is fun. It doesn't hurt that the dealer is a cool guy with fair prices and tons of good vintage inventory.

Also, a lot of dealers don't really look beyond card / grade / VCP, so it's possible to offload below-average cards for the assigned grade and get the market value, minus whatever discount the dealer assesses. This has enabled me to trade cards that are weak for the grade in exchange for examples that are strong.