Help with GAI graded T206

[jtq81]

I would really appreciate some feedback/suggestions regarding this card. I've asked around a lot already and I'm getting inconsistent answers. I was told this forum is full of T206 experts.

GAI "1st Graded" with cert number 1002xxxx. Legit? Trimmed?

https://imgur.com/zrNKPRy

https://imgur.com/IkfBCEi

https://imgur.com/OX0sA72

https://imgur.com/Ktp5vtu

https://imgur.com/DyJ9TfC

[nebboy]

Welcome to Net54 - lots of very good hobbiest here. I'm sure you will get the answers you seek. Also hope they positive. For my old worn out IPad links didn't work.

[RCMcKenzie]

What grade did GAI give it? I know some people liked early GAI cards, but my first thought on GAI slabbed cards today, is that if it could be in a PSA or SGC holder, it would be. The left border looks wavy, but it could just be the scan. It's a nice looking Cobb, but not something I would personally buy.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

It's so crisp it's disconcerting. There is minor surface wear so why no edge or corner wear? Regardless it's not something I feel 100% safe on passing judgement on without it in my hand, but I would err on the side of caution.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

What grade did GAI give it? I know some people liked early GAI cards, but my first thought on GAI slabbed cards today, is that if it could be in a PSA or SGC holder, it would be. The left border looks wavy, but it could just be the scan. It's a nice looking Cobb, but not something I would personally buy.

I agree. If this card could be crossed over, it already would have been. The 1st graded designation gives it a slightly better chance of being legit but I'm guessing this card has a very high GAI grade and is the reason the grade is not pictured.

Probably trimmed IMO but certainly cannot be certain from the pictures.

[G1911]

Early GAI is safe in the sense that the card is legit - they weren’t slabbing outright fakes anymore than PSA. This Cobb is legit.

[jtq81]

Sorry, I thought I had attached the picture of the entire slab.

https://imgur.com/b43XwNn

Has anyone crossed over high-grade "1st Graded" GAI cards successfully to PSA?

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jtq81

Sorry, I thought I had attached the picture of the entire slab.

https://imgur.com/b43XwNn

Has anyone crossed over high-grade "1st Graded" GAI cards successfully to PSA?

The last sold PSA 8 example of this card according to VCP brought $102,000 in 2018 in a Heritage auction. Likely it would be much higher in today's market.

I doubt based on GAI's reputation that PSA would even consider crossing the card at this grade. Just too much risk on their part to slab this card without looking at it outside the current holder.

It is a beautiful card.

If you knew that Mike Baker reviewed it in the early days of GAI before issuing the grade, then it might well be fine but no way to know that for certain.

Unfortunately, Baker will not review GAI graded cards with his new service even though he was a co owner of GAI. I know this because I asked if he would review a GAI 8.5 graded 1954 Red Heart Mantle. The answer was he does not review GAI cards. Pretty telling answer IMO.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by rand1com

The last sold PSA 8 example of this card according to VCP brought $102,000 in 2018 in a Heritage auction. Likely it would be much higher in today's market.

I doubt based on GAI's reputation that PSA would even consider crossing the card at this grade. Just too much risk on their part to slab this card without looking at it outside the current holder.

It is a beautiful card.

If you knew that Mike Baker reviewed it in the early days of GAI before issuing the grade, then it might well be fine but no way to know that for certain.

Unfortunately, Baker will not review GAI graded cards with his new service even though he was a co owner of GAI. I know this because I asked if he would review a GAI 8.5 graded 1954 Red Heart Mantle. The answer was he does not review GAI cards. Pretty telling answer IMO.

Great information and well presented.
+1 agree

[jtq81]

Originally Posted by rand1com

The last sold PSA 8 example of this card according to VCP brought $102,000 in 2018 in a Heritage auction. Likely it would be much higher in today's market.

I doubt based on GAI's reputation that PSA would even consider crossing the card at this grade. Just too much risk on their part to slab this card without looking at it outside the current holder.

It is a beautiful card.

If you knew that Mike Baker reviewed it in the early days of GAI before issuing the grade, then it might well be fine but no way to know that for certain.

Unfortunately, Baker will not review GAI graded cards with his new service even though he was a co owner of GAI. I know this because I asked if he would review a GAI 8.5 graded 1954 Red Heart Mantle. The answer was he does not review GAI cards. Pretty telling answer IMO.

Thank you. This is the kind of answer I was looking for.

So, what now? Is it better to keep it in a GAI holder for eternity or would having it raw be better?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jtq81

Thank you. This is the kind of answer I was looking for.

So, what now? Is it better to keep it in a GAI holder for eternity or would having it raw be better?

Leave it in the GAI holder.

[rand1com]

I would leave it in the GAI holder because there is a chance it is fine. I just don't think PSA or SGC would cross it over. However, it might be worth trying.

If you break it out and it is OK, you can submit it to PSA with no problem and they may well grade it an 8 if they have it in hand not in a holder.

GAI was legitimate in the early years as Mike Baker left PSA as the head grader to form GAI with Steve Rocchi who was the President of PSA at the time. He is one of the most respected card graders.

I was originally under the impression that the 1st graded designation referred only to the original 1st card graded by GAI of a specific card but others on this forum have other opinions of what 1st graded means.

Not sure what the crossover fee would be for a card of this value but I assume it would be based on the value of the card in that grade based on the PSA SMR. It would stay in the GAI holder if they failed to cross it but the fee would be the same. SGC fee for crossover may be more reasonable.

Bottom line is if you are a collector, you have a very nice card. If you are looking to sell it, the options are not great in the current holder. Certainly not 6 figure value IMO.

[Luke]

It's trimmed but very nice looking.

[jtq81]

Originally Posted by Luke

It's trimmed but very nice looking.

What/where are you seeing this to make this decision? Serious question.

[JustinD]

I would be hesitant for sure as visually I agree it looks a bit short top to bottom. For something of this value if a direct flip was possible, it would have happened during any sale in the recent past. I hate grading, but I certainly would not leave a minimum of 70k on the table not trying.

[G1911]

As I remember, first graded meant the first copy of that card to get that specific grade. So there can be a first graded GAI 2 Cobb Bat Off, a first graded 5, a first graded 8 etc.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by jtq81

What/where are you seeing this to make this decision? Serious question.

Tiny borders, super sharp corners, sitting in a GAI holder in 2022 are the main three reasons. My gut immediately said trimmed, which means a lot to me as I've handled thousands of t206s and looked at many more scans, but probably doesn't mean much to you I realize. The bottom edge doesn't look straight to me and all of the corners look to be slightly off of 90 degrees, even though the card is not diamond cut.

[jtq81]

Originally Posted by Luke

Tiny borders, super sharp corners, sitting in a GAI holder in 2022 are the main three reasons. My gut immediately said trimmed, which means a lot to me as I've handled thousands of t206s and looked at many more scans, but probably doesn't mean much to you I realize. The bottom edge doesn't look straight to me and all of the corners look to be slightly off of 90 degrees, even though the card is not diamond cut.

Thank you. I really do appreciate you taking the time to explain.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by G1911

As I remember, first graded meant the first copy of that card to get that specific grade. So there can be a first graded GAI 2 Cobb Bat Off, a first graded 5, a first graded 8 etc.

This is correct.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jtq81

I would really appreciate some feedback/suggestions regarding this card. I've asked around a lot already and I'm getting inconsistent answers. I was told this forum is full of T206 experts.

GAI "1st Graded" with cert number 1002xxxx. Legit? Trimmed?

https://imgur.com/zrNKPRy

https://imgur.com/IkfBCEi

https://imgur.com/OX0sA72

https://imgur.com/Ktp5vtu

https://imgur.com/DyJ9TfC

How long have you owned the card? Did the other forums you used also opine "likely trimmed?"

[Frank A]

What label is on the slab?

[Leon]

Some Gai cards are definitely good. That said, I am always very leery of ones left in their holders.
.

[jtq81]

Originally Posted by rand1com

How long have you owned the card? Did the other forums you used also opine "likely trimmed?"

Since 2018. The previous owner is the original owner, and had it graded in 2002 at the National.

Originally Posted by Frank A

What label is on the slab?

First version GAI label.

[Yoda]

If untouched, it is indeed a condition rarity card.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by jtq81

Since 2018. The previous owner is the original owner, and had it graded in 2002 at the National.

I think I'm misunderstanding the provenance ...

How old was the previous owner when he pulled it from a pack of cigarettes? lets say he was 10 when he pulled it from a pack of his Dad's Sweet Caps in 1910, and at the age of 102 traveled to the National and got it graded, and then sold it to you in 2018 at the age of 118?

Sorry I can't help on trimmed vs not, but its a beautiful card, good luck with your decision!

[Yoda]

If you are really uncomfortable with the GAI holder, you can always sell it with a reputable AH. In this market the card would get a lot of action.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jtq81

Since 2018. The previous owner is the original owner, and had it graded in 2002 at the National.



First version GAI label.

2002 was very early in the GAI era and Mike Baker would have definitely been involved in the final grading process for this card at that time.

I would say there is a 50/50 chance the card is legitimate and not trimmed based on this information but again the fee to try and cross it over would be high and I still don't think they would risk crossing it.

You might talk to one of the big auction houses like Heritage, REA, or another of the big players and see if they can get it looked at for a cross over without charging a huge fee back to you if it does not cross.

The other option would be to consign it as is with one of the auction houses that use reserves and see if you can get a reasonable price for it. I'm guessing in 2018 you got into it in this holder at a good price.

Again, if you are not looking to sell it, I would just leave it in the current holder.

Good luck with it.

[frankbmd]

I successfully crossed 20 GAI T206s to SGC.

All had the older holders.

All 20 were cracked out of the GAI holders before submitting them.

All received numerical grades.

On agregregate the grades were about .5 lower.

i was pleased.

[botport]

I do not think you can leave this card in the GAI holder. My feeling is that as long as it is in that holder you will be hamstrung as to what you can get out of it, whenever that may be. My guess is in the GAI slab that you are looking at a really nice SGC 'A' or possibly as high as an SGC 2/3 value.
I think the opinions shared earlier will be the prevailing thoughts of potential future buyers (ie: Its trimmed - I will pay 'AUTH' price)

Not many people will buy the card and not the slab at 100k+

I am not claiming to be an expert but here is my amateur assessment. This card has a good chance of grading numerically. I have seen plenty of T206 with equal or less borders with numeric grades.

To me the downside of having it regraded is negligible because of the stigma of the current holder. Meanwhile, the upside is huge.

In sum, to me the worst case scenario is this comes back as PSA 'A' ... and that would be disappointing, absolutely. However, until graded by PSA or SGC I feel you will be hard pressed to realize more than what Authentic PSA and SGC Cobb bat offs routinely sell for.

[ElCabron]

Should be good by Monday.

[T205 GB]

I have crossed several GAI cards to both PSA and SGC. All were 1st graded. All but one was cracked and resubbed. All lost .5-2 points but ended up valued a bit better. In all honesty do a lot more research on this boards archives. There are troves of threads specifically about spotting altered prewar cards.

[Joe Hunter]

A few years ago I cracked several early GAI graded cards and sent them to PSA. The grades from PSA were comparable to the GAI grades with all grading within .5 +/- the original grade. Not sure, however, if that ratio would still apply, today. GAI slabs are not had to crack, but if you have never done it before, I could understand your hesitancy to attempt it on such a high value card. As others have said, if you are wanting to sell, contact a major auction house and get their opinion.