New to the Forum and Vintage - any advice?

[rauchand]

I've been collecting since I was young, got out of the hobby and have been back in it for the last 7 years (28 years old now). I have been into modern collecting (autos and patches) and have just recently decided to sell my current collection and start a vintage collection.

I want to start by getting HOF 50s, 60s, and 70s cards. I'd like to get Mantle, Clemente, Mays, Aaron, Rose, Maris, Kaline, and other various rookies from various years PSA 7 or better for 60s and 70s and PSA 6 or better for 50s. I decided to start with 67 Topps. I picked up my first one last night - Clemente 67 PSA 7.5 for $150 DLVD http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Topps-R...vip=true&rt=nc


Any advice for a newbie? Would it make more sense to go for PSA 8 for 60s/70s?

[Cardboard Junkie]

I would suggest...buy what you like....not for investment. Dave.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by rauchand

Any advice for a newbie? Would it make more sense to go for PSA 8 for 60s/70s?

Make more sense in what way? To me, it makes no more sense than collecting 8.5s, 7.5s or 1.5s.

Collect what attracts you and you'll likely be the most pleased with what you gather.

I guess the only thing I would say (but it really goes without saying) is that some vintage RCs are pretty pricey, particularly in those high grades. That's usually not an issue if you're patient, as you can either find good values at times or save up for the quality you want, given enough time. But if you want to progress quickly (and aren't super wealthy), you might want to choose more recent issues OR go with lower grade.

Christian

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by rauchand

Any advice for a newbie? Would it make more sense to go for PSA 8 for 60s/70s?

Makes less cents for you if you go for the 8s. And more cents for you if...
IMO, I just want a particular card because it strikes me a certain way, not always because of a HOFer (but that don't hurt). Just my two sense. Have fun with them, truly!

[ALR-bishop]

Rauchand ( first name ?)...nice Clemente

What to collect and in what condition are fairly personal choices, and your own goals, hobby or risky investment, is important input to your question

[rauchand]

First name is Andy. Yeah, I am doing this to enjoy, not invest. I just got sick of the new products (Same thing over and over). I think it will be fun searching for these cards and I won't have to waste $$ busting wax!

The 67 Mantle is my next target. I've noticed some are red dot variation? Is that just because of the printing error? Do the ones without it go for a premium?

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Rauchand ( first name ?)...nice Clemente

What to collect and in what condition are fairly personal choices, and your own goals, hobby or risky investment, is important input to your question

[Brianruns10]

First off, everyone is right in that you should buy what you like, first and foremost. You gotta enjoy it, amiright?

But I think you should also keep an eye to market value and resale potential. I think too many people get into this hobby without any standards or eye for detail, they just wanna build up a set of something, and they load up on off center cards with corner dings, creases and pinholes. Which is fine if you understand what you're getting into, but then there are those who later try to sell but get a real shock when they find their cards aren't worth nearly as much as the book says, because they bought poor condition cards which don't have a lot of future resale value.

I'm a big believer in what Will Rogers said, that "Folks should worry more about getting their money returned than getting a return on their money." I'm not worried about making a profit, but I am concerned about getting my money back on a card I sell. And I'd like for the card's value to at least keep pace with the rate of inflation. And for me, you'll have much better luck getting a nice a card as possible.

As far as grade, I think you should let your budget dictate what you can buy. I'm building the '52 Topps set, and my budget pretty much has me buying cards in the PSA 6-7 range. Rarely I'll venture above that, but I've not yet bought an 8, because it falls outside my budget plans, and it would look out of place aesthetically anyways.

Another reason to get as high a grade as your budget allows is the nature of pricing, which tends to go up exponentially, given the supply varies inversely, with fewer cards at each grade level. Suppose a PSA 6 card you want is 30 bucks. And a PSA 7 is 45. And a PSA 8 is 200. The PSA 8 is likely too much, but it is a more reasonable proposal to consider spending an extra 15 for that PSA, which will stand to attract more buyers later one who will want a higher grade than a PSA 6, and perhaps pay a premium for it.

[ALR-bishop]

I like variations/errors/print defects/variants more than most folks. The red dot above the name on some 67 Mantles is a minor print defect. It has no official recognition in the hobby as far as I know in major catalogs or the registry, and therefore would not be on normal master set or Mantle collector lists. So I do not think one would pay a premium for it. Some might actually view it as a defect that detracts from value. Again, each to his/her own.

But I think they are kind of neat If you check ebay you will see they are not hard to find

[ALR-bishop]

If you want to look for a an obscure Mantle variant, Bob Lemke wrote an article in SCD some time back pointing out that the 1964 Topps Mantle, card # 50, can be found with or without (scarce) a period after the N in NY on the back of the card. You can see an example of it on Bob's great Blog..boblemke.blogspot.com

[doug.goodman]

Welcome to Net54!

First thing I would do, if I were you, would be to break open that plastic slab and remove that Clemente card from it's tomb.

But that's just me (and maybe a few other guys)
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=168614

Doug

[ALR-bishop]

"It takes a big man to crack a card from it's holder, and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that guy"

I don't think Jack Handy ever said this, but it is the kind of thing he might have said....if he had ever thought about it.

Doug has a bumper sticker "All Cards Deserve Their Freedom" And, I don't know who posted under my name in that thread

[rauchand]

I'm going to stick with PSA graded. I just don't trust sellers on Ebay. Picked up the Mantle 67 last night PSA 7. Still going after the Aaron, Mays, Maris, Kaline, and Rose. Then I'll move onto the next set.

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by rauchand

I'm going to stick with PSA graded. I just don't trust sellers on Ebay. Picked up the Mantle 67 last night PSA 7. Still going after the Aaron, Mays, Maris, Kaline, and Rose. Then I'll move onto the next set.

I agree. While I buy the card, not the plastic, it is far too difficult to safely judge a raw card on an ebay auction, especially if it's a star card. But dealers in quality vintage are tough to come by in my area, and quality shows are few, or far away, so ebay is really my best, and often only source for vintage stock. PSA is insurance for me.

Apart from that, I'm all about centering and eye appeal, and honestly, if i was offered a choice between an off center PSA 8 and a centered PSA 6, each for the same price, I'd take the PSA 6 in a heartbeat.

[ALR-bishop]

If you check out some of the threads on pre war ( for instance the current Fake Packs thread), you may find that putting your trust in PSA, or any grading company, does not eliminate your risk

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

If check out some of the threads on pre war ( for instance the current Fake Packs thread), you may find that putting your trust in PSA, or any grading company, does not eliminate your risk

No, but what it comes down to is common sense. For my '52 Topps set, if we're talking common cards, I think it's pretty safe bet. I haven't seen a fake common yet...too much trouble, not enough return on the money.

Now if we're talking a major card, that's a little different, and in those cases, I still like to buy PSA, but I buy from sellers I trust....Heritage Auctions, Memory Lane, ebay sellers like Probstein and Texasholdem.

If I see a card I like, but it's being sold by a guy with no experience in vintage, or who deals only in new junk and NASCAR, I avoid like the plague. Those are the guys who get scammed into buying faked slabbed '52 Mantles, then try to pawn them off on unscrupulous ebayers.

[MattyC]

Hi,

From your post, I would imagine our collecting interests have some overlap (most of my cards are viewable in my sigline).

As many have said: first and foremost, buy what you like. This will assure happiness, which is what a collection is supposed to give you.

Beyond that, patience is critical to making wise purchases and finding specimens at the high end of their assigned grade. As the old axion goes: buy the card, not the holder.

Be sure to scrutinize scans and in effect grade the graders, by choosing which cards you go after. Not all cards within the same grade level are equal, and a TPG label has been known to blind a man.

With rare exception, another example of a card always pops up; this is almost certain with Post War.

If anything about the card irks you, simply pass; guaranteed over time you will find the one that pleases you in every way, including price.

Sidenote: I suppose this last bit above can also be said of women.

Back to cards: it is also helpful to browse one grade below the grade you are after-- there is nothing like finding a card in a GRADE X-1 holder that deserves to be in a GRADE X holder. Such an undergraded card represents real value, and if you ever want to sell it could even bump.

Best of luck!

One other thing I can almost assure you of: just as now you are selling some modern to move into post-war vintage, a few years from now you'll probably part with a big chunk of your 50s-70s to move into PreWar. Trust me, it happens.

All roads lead to Ruth.