NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-29-2018, 09:37 AM
deepstep19 deepstep19 is offline
William
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 142
Default Question regarding 1968 Milton Bradley Nolan Ryan

Just wanting to get some input on this card. In particular the PsA 6 for regular Topps and Milton Bradley Nolan Ryan's are both VCP around 600. However the PSA population for the all regular Topps PSA is 8164 and the Milton Bradley total is 257. Just curious as to why the Milton Bradley is not worth more since apparently it's way more scarce?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-29-2018, 09:50 AM
rsdill2 rsdill2 is offline
Robert D!ll!ngham
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 502
Default

I'm no expert on the '68 MBs but here's my thoughts:

-PSA only recently began labeling MBs - so for 20 years all 68 Ryan's have been labeled Topps, thus skewing the pop report

-Lots of people don't know / don't care about the MB variation. Simple supply/demand
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-29-2018, 01:07 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Also, people are putting together complete graded 1968 Topps sets; very few are putting together graded Milton Bradley sets.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-29-2018, 03:15 PM
toppcat's Avatar
toppcat toppcat is offline
Dave.Horn.ish
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Also, people are putting together complete graded 1968 Topps sets; very few are putting together graded Milton Bradley sets.
This. MB too is almost a reprint if you think about it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:01 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

I have a set, ungraded. In a way the entire set is sort of a variation, and two MB cards are in fact listed as official variations to the 1968 Topps set. That caused me to get two copies of the Cox and Brinkman yellow name cards, one pair for the MB set and one for the base set, even though all the Brinkman and Cox variations are MB card

Like the 62 green tints I think graders would have a hard time accurately identifying MB cards unless they had a regular version of the card in hand to compare

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 06-29-2018 at 04:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:07 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,646
Default

I think it has more to do with demand caused by the difficulty in distinguishing between the Topps and MB version.

Z
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-30-2018, 09:59 AM
horzverti's Avatar
horzverti horzverti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,032
Default

For me, the difficulty distinguishing regular issue Topps vs. MB cards is what make MB cards most appealing. I like the 1968 regular set, but I really like the MB set.

MBs are not reprints. They are a special issue which were produced for a game in a close time frame relative to when the regular 1968s were produced/distributed (only months apart). In our hobby, the word reprint has a negative connotation attached to it. The fake 1963 Rose rookies printed in the 1980/90s are reprints. The MB cards are not reprints.

I respect your deep knowledge on everything Topps Dave. We may just have different opinions. I didn’t miss your use of the word “almost” in your post.
__________________
Cur! H0++an

Last edited by horzverti; 06-30-2018 at 10:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-30-2018, 10:05 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horzverti View Post
The fake 1963 Rose rookies printed in the 1980/90s are reprints. The MB cards are not reprints.
Most people would say those are not reprints, as they were not made with the approval of the copyright holder. Therefore, they are counterfeits. Topps does make officially licensed reprints, and there is a distinction to be made. Especially when you're also splitting hairs.
Plus, most MBs are notable due to the white border from the non-baseball cards being next to the burlaps on the printing sheet. So the ones that are easily recognizable due to the white edge are also therefore off-center... ;-)
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-30-2018, 10:36 AM
horzverti's Avatar
horzverti horzverti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Most people would say those are not reprints, as they were not made with the approval of the copyright holder. Therefore, they are counterfeits. Topps does make officially licensed reprints, and there is a distinction to be made. Especially when you're also splitting hairs.
Plus, most MBs are notable due to the white border from the non-baseball cards being next to the burlaps on the printing sheet. So the ones that are easily recognizable due to the white edge are also therefore off-center... ;-)
I would lump counterfeit cards in with the reprint designation.
__________________
Cur! H0++an
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-30-2018, 12:41 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

I agree with John’s distinction between a reprint and a counterfeit, but personally do not view the MB cards as either. Like the 62 green tints,
produced in a separate print run by possibly a different printer I would classify them as variations.

But I will leave it up to whoever is in charge of the hobby to decide
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-30-2018, 09:37 PM
horzverti's Avatar
horzverti horzverti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,032
Default

I am probably using the words counterfeit and reprint synonymously. If I go through a stack of cards and I spot one that looks fake, I would call it a reprint. I am not sure I would use the word counterfeit. That is just me. I am not saying that anyone is incorrect.

I remember seeing many of the fake Rose rookies actually stamped “counterfeit” on the back. I understand why John would refer to this card, which I used as an example of a reprint card, as counterfeit.

Here is a question for everyone: Fake 1952 Topps Mantles - counterfeit or reprints? Both?

Back to MBs...super set!
__________________
Cur! H0++an
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-01-2018, 06:15 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

The distinction is based on the intent of the person/company who printed them. If the intent is to deceive (sell as the original), then they are counterfeits. If the intent is to reproduce as a novelty, then it is a reprint. Appropriate reprints make changes to the original card so that they can be easily spotted and not used as a fake version later on. For example, 1933 Goudey reprints have Reprint printed on them. T206 reprints have "Capital Reprint" printed on them. Topps reprints of earlier cards are made on different stock and normally have "Topps Reprint Series #x of y cards" printed on them.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-01-2018, 06:15 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

*double post*
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.

Last edited by swarmee; 07-01-2018 at 06:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-01-2018, 07:31 AM
toppcat's Avatar
toppcat toppcat is offline
Dave.Horn.ish
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,800
Default

I would call a card reissued by the manufacturer after the original run a reprint, or a reissue. A counterfeit is just that, a fake card. The MB's, to me, are "almost" a reprint and to others they may or may not be considered a true one. Either way I think it impacts the value a little. The MB Baseball are also a subset, as are Football and Hot Rods, of the larger set and I assume that you lose full set collectors in that scenario.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-01-2018, 08:19 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

Are the 62 green tints reprints ?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:44 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat View Post
The MB Baseball are also a subset, as are Football and Hot Rods, of the larger set and I assume that you lose full set collectors in that scenario.
The MB cards are a set unto themselves, IMO. They were not co-mingled with 1968 cards and put in baseball, or 1967 football, or 1966 hot rods packs (those only had pink backs, right?). They were only packaged with the game. If you're putting together a set of MB cards, you need all the ones that were in the game, not just the baseball ones.

The Green Tints are a variation of cards in the 1962 Topps Baseball set, because they were pack issued in baseball card packs that year.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.

Last edited by swarmee; 07-01-2018 at 11:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:59 AM
CobbSpikedMe's Avatar
CobbSpikedMe CobbSpikedMe is offline
Andrew Hunt00n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 2,169
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
The MB cards are a set unto themselves, IMO. They were not co-mingled with 1968 cards and put in baseball, or 1967 football, or 1966 hot rods packs (those only had pink backs, right?). They were only packaged with the game. If you're putting together a set of MB cards, you need all the ones that were in the game, not just the baseball ones.

The Green Tints are a variation of cards in the 1962 Topps Baseball set, because they were pack issued in baseball card packs that year.
Completely agree with John here. MBs are a separate set unto themselves and green tints are variations.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar.

The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here
My Online Trading Site: Click Here
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
My Humble Blog: Click Here
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:08 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

I could agree that the MBs are a separate set. Could also see them as variations. But, if a separate
set maybe the Cox and Brinkman should/could be eliminated as variations to the 68 set.

Agree green tints are variations. I do not think a second printing makes them or the MBs reprints

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 07-01-2018 at 12:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-01-2018, 01:35 PM
savedfrommyspokes's Avatar
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
member
Larry More.y
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,984
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I could agree that the MBs are a separate set. Could also see them as variations. But, if a separate
set maybe the Cox and Brinkman should/could be eliminated as variations to the 68 set.

Agree green tints are variations. I do not think a second printing makes them or the MBs reprints
I agree with John, Al and Andy.....the 68 MBS are a separate set and the 62 GTs are merely a second print run. I would consider the 68 MBs similar to the BK cards from the 70s, produced by Topps for another company. I wonder what Carltons definition of the MB set would be?

To answer the op's original question, in line with other responses, lack of demand keeps the prices for these cards down. When Carltons article came out a few years back, there was a small surge in prices due to a brief increase in demand, but as time has passed, so has the small spike in demand.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-02-2018, 08:24 AM
tschock tschock is offline
T@yl0r $ch0ck
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I could agree that the MBs are a separate set. Could also see them as variations. But, if a separate
set maybe the Cox and Brinkman should/could be eliminated as variations to the 68 set.
The Cox and Brinkman are a great example of supply and demand. Even those who know they were not issued as part of the Topps set still collect those as variations of the Topps set. They were issued in the same quantity as any of the other MB cards, yet they hold a relatively much higher value than the other Topps counterparts (including the Ryan). However as anyone who is putting a true MB set together, the toughest cards by far to find (years later) are the Hot Rod cards.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-02-2018, 10:49 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

Taylor— the reason people collect them as part of the 68 set, even if they know them to be MB cards, is that PSA, Beckett and SCD include them as part of a master set. That’s why I have them in both of my sets. Most 1968 set collectors want them, as well as any MB collectors, hence the demand you point out that drives up the price more than that for other MB cards

We need Carlton to pop in here
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:55 PM
toppcat's Avatar
toppcat toppcat is offline
Dave.Horn.ish
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,800
Default

Cox and Brinkman are more popular because they have been in the guides as a legit 68 Topps variation since the beginning, or close enough to it that they are considered part and parcel of the 68 Topps set.

Hot Rods are intriguing since they also show up in the salmon backed "Fun Pack" reissues that also include 67 Who Am I? (no coating) and Target: Moon. What was the purpose of that "set" originally, since Fun Packs were for overstocked and returned cards?

Last edited by toppcat; 07-02-2018 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1968 Topps Nolan Ryan milton bradley? yankeeno7 Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 7 09-11-2012 06:13 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:39 AM.


ebay GSB