1912 T207 Recruit factory 240 amd factory 606 cards

[kmac32]

Jere is a question anout the different Factory backs of 1912 T207 cards. What is the rarety or the 2 different factory backs? Is the factory 606 more rare than the factory 240? Neither one appear all that difficutlt to find but factory 606 appear to ne somewhat harder to find than factory 240. Is this true and why?

[yoyot1]

My data point: 58 Recruit cards, 20 are 606, 38 are 240.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by yoyot1

My data point: 58 Recruit cards, 20 are 606, 38 are 240.

That is kind of th ratio I am finding also. I just bought a Frank Chance factory 606 off of ebay and there were 5 Recruit 240 to 1 606.

[Vintagecatcher]

Hi Ken,

It was been my experience as well that the Factory 606 cards are less common.

I have 18 Factory 240 cards and only 6 Factory 606 Recruits.


Patrick

[ValKehl]

Ken, here's the link to a 2010 OC piece by Tim Newcomb in which the various T207 backs are pictured in the order of scarcity:

http://t206players.com/oldcardboard.pdf

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Ken, here's the link to a 2010 OC piece by Tim Newcomb in which the various T207 backs are pictured in the order of scarcity:

http://t206players.com/oldcardboard.pdf

Interesting article. Will b useful in my T207 Cubs back set. Definitely coming along

[Bocabirdman]

I have 56 different guys left up on the Bay....15 606 and 41 240

I started with 69...... 18 606 and 51 240

[kmac32]

Looks like the average is around 26% factory 606 to 75% factory 240. Wonder why the disparity? Interesting.

[frohme]

Hey Ken,

A ratio between 2-1 or 3-1 for Factory 240 vs 606 seems to have been the running opinion for a while now. The aggregate numbers, though, hide a little bit of detail, namely that there is a bit of variance - or a lot - depending on the specific player/pose.

While most cards are slightly more difficult to find in 606 than their 240 counterparts, some actually seem to be as easy, if not easier. My (very) rough correlation from a totally heuristic, non-scientific perspective is that the tougher-to-find Recruits tend to be closer to being on-par population-wise between the two factories. Not a big leap to see how that could easily be the case.

On the other hand, there's at least one card that has a seemingly *very* high ratio of Fac 240 to Fac 606 ... greater than 10 to 1. Have not validated recently, but every time I checked a new copy, it seemed to be fac 240 ... again, no math, just perception.

Like other sets of the time, it is these sorts of interesting details that keeps the collecting fun.

Best of luck on the 32 Cubbies, Ken!
--
Mike

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by frohme

Hey Ken,

A ratio between 2-1 or 3-1 for Factory 240 vs 606 seems to have been the running opinion for a while now. The aggregate numbers, though, hide a little bit of detail, namely that there is a bit of variance - or a lot - depending on the specific player/pose.

While most cards are slightly more difficult to find in 606 than their 240 counterparts, some actually seem to be as easy, if not easier. My (very) rough correlation from a totally heuristic, non-scientific perspective is that the tougher-to-find Recruits tend to be closer to being on-par population-wise between the two factories. Not a big leap to see how that could easily be the case.

On the other hand, there's at least one card that has a seemingly *very* high ratio of Fac 240 to Fac 606 ... greater than 10 to 1. Have not validated recently, but every time I checked a new copy, it seemed to be fac 240 ... again, no math, just perception.

Like other sets of the time, it is these sorts of interesting details that keeps the collecting fun.

Best of luck on the 32 Cubbies, Ken!
--
Mike

Hi Mike,

I assume the number does not include the "Brown Ink" recruits. Do we know if brown ink recruits come in both factories? If so then the number would be 48 potential cards. I have one brown ink so far.

[frohme]

There are not enough brown-ink backs to affect any population numbers, Ken.

I believe only a relative few are known - slightly more than the number of T207 Red Cross - and not more than 1 of any specific player as far as I'm aware (which is admittedly not very far). The ones I've seen are Factory 240, but I have read that they can be found with Factory 606 back. That said, and though the source is very credible, I haven't seen one, or an image of one, so will reserve judgement till I do... so for me, they're still Factory 240 only.

While they're pretty obvious in person, scans of the brown backs can be deceiving - many posted on eBay as "Brown print" are just as likely not. Scanning cards side-by-side can help with scanned image questions.

--
Mike

[tbob]

"In a survey of several thousand T207s that I performed in 2003-2004, I found that among the 150 Recruit-Napoleon cards, almost 97% appeared with Recruit backs, about 2% with Napoleon backs, and only 1% with Anonymous Factory 3 backs." From Tim N.'s article.

If you want to get really technical on the T207 "Recruit" cards, throw in the scarce blank backs and the Recruit back cards with wrong backs...

[frohme]

Hey Bob,

Your and Tim N's VCBC articles are still one of the best go-to sources for general info about the T207 set as far as I am concerned. Mine are around here somewhere, but we've been cleaning up and they've been "misplaced" for the moment. I was hoping to have another nice read as it is gray and gloomy and way too warm for Louisville in mid-December.

Your post reminds me of some of the details, though, and clearly the overall back breakdowns are still accurate after 10+ years. If I recall, what wasn't covered in Tim's survey was the factory breakdown between 606 and 240 in the Recruit subclass (though it was for factories 3 and 25 in the Anonymous group of the Broadleaf sub-class).

Ken's original post was on the ratio of Factory 240 vs Factory 606 Recruits. Within that subset, the number of wrong-print T207 Recruit backs (and the brown-print ones I mention in my previous post) is so small is to have literally no effect on the overall ratio of Factory 240 to 606 . Blank backs have exactly 0 impact (they can't be either one). I strayed slightly from the original topic in response to Ken's question about brown-ink backs.

I do remember various folks posting on the board over the years about the ratio and think that 3-1 was a given as a decent estimate when you look at the aggregate across all T207 Recruit poses. Too lazy to do a site search right now, though.

--
Mike

[brianp-beme]

I have something just slightly over a 2 to 1 factory 240 to 606 Recruit cards. However, at one point I made a point of picking up alternate factory cards (usually factory 606 was the one I needed), so my results are a little skewed. I think somewhere between the 2.5 - 3 factory 240 to 1 606 factory seems to be, with the other input on this thread, the likely ratio.

Brian

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by frohme

There are not enough brown-ink backs to affect any population numbers, Ken.

I believe only a relative few are known - slightly more than the number of T207 Red Cross - and not more than 1 of any specific player as far as I'm aware (which is admittedly not very far). The ones I've seen are Factory 240, but I have read that they can be found with Factory 606 back. That said, and though the source is very credible, I haven't seen one, or an image of one, so will reserve judgement till I do... so for me, they're still Factory 240 only.

While they're pretty obvious in person, scans of the brown backs can be deceiving - many posted on eBay as "Brown print" are just as likely not. Scanning cards side-by-side can help with scanned image questions.

--
Mike

The one I have is a factory 240 also.

[ValKehl]

I won this lot of 4 T207 brown-ink backs in the recent REA Auction, and all of them are Factory 240. My interest is only in the WaJo card - the other 3 cards will appear in LOTG's January auction. BTW, each of these 3 now has a SGC flip that references the brown back: http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/..._fall/235.html
Val