Opinions on this Babe Ruth Baseball That Came in the store today

[Sportsnutcards]

A customer brought in this baseball signed by Babe Ruth and others. It looks a little shaky to me but I wasn't sure. Supposedly it has been in the family since the 20's or 30's and in my customers possession since the 60's. I also couldn't figure out the other signatures on the ball. Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks
Ted

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Looks awful IMHO

[perezfan]

That one made me spill my coffee. Dreadful childish fake!

[keithsky]

Directly from Coachs Corner in my opinion

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I checked the calendar to make sure this wasn't early April.

[Sportsnutcards]

Thanks for the opinions. I had told the customer I would double check for him even though I had my doubts. The era of the baseball matched the time frame when he signed with the quotations. I wonder if it was a faded signature that someone had traced over.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Sportsnutcards

Thanks for the opinions. I had told the customer I would double check for him even though I had my doubts. The era of the baseball matched the time frame when he signed with the quotations. I wonder if it was a faded signature that someone had traced over.

No chance

[Sportsnutcards]

I finally a way to upload the other pictures. Any idea on the others? Or who they are trying to make them look like?

[Wrightfan85]

Bottom on the middle is Ban Johnson I'm guessing and that doesn't look anywhere close either.

[Steve D]

The first one in your post #8 looks like it could be Henry L. Doherty, the founder of CITGO Petroleum.


Steve

[jerseygary]

OK, don't jump all over me on this, hear me out. That Henry Doherty on the other panel rang a bell with me. Back in the teens and early 1920's the Doherty Silk Company in Paterson, NJ had one of the hottest semi-pro teams around, called the "Silk Sox." Henry Doherty, Jr. inherited the company from his Dad and Junior was a baseball fiend. He went about forming a team that would boast many ex-big leaguers, college players and some who even got their start from playing with the Silk Sox - Milt Gaston comes to mind, as he was discovered during a Silk Sox-Yankees exhibition game.

Many of the major league teams and negro league teams played them - including Babe Ruth when he was with the Red Sox and Yankees. Because the Silk Sox played all kinds of teams, there is a possibility they would have hosted one of Ruth's many barnstorming teams.

I'm not saying this is real, because it does look pretty thick and off, but that Henry Doherty on the side panel got me thinking...

[Steve D]

In response to Gary's post above, the interesting thing is, the Henry Doherty Jr who owned the Doherty Silk Company, was born in 1879 in Passaic, New Jersey. His father was apparently born in Cheshire, England in 1850.

The Henry Latham Doherty who founded the Cities Service Company, that became CITGO Petroleum, was born in Ohio in 1870; so the Henry Jr who owned the Silk Company and the Silk Sox, was not the son of Henry L. Doherty of Cities Service (CITGO). Henry Latham Doherty did live in New York City for several years.

I found an old stock certificate, and a photo of Henry Latham Doherty of CITGO, and it matches the signature on the baseball.

It is possible, that the Henry Doherty Jr of the Silk Sox, was related to Henry Latham Doherty of CITGO, but they were not father and son.

Steve

[jerseygary]

They were 2 separate people, same name. Henry L. Doherty, Sr. founded the silk company and ran it up until after the (in)famous Paterson Silk Strike of 1913, with Henry L. Doherty, Jr. being the father's successor after his death around 1915 or so.

If it is your Henry Doherty, I wonder if there was some kind of Babe Ruth - Cities Service Company promotion in which they gave away balls like this.

[Bpm0014]

All the others may be legit. None of the others may be legit. But the Ruth is without question a completely laughable forgery.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Wrightfan85

Bottom on the middle is Ban Johnson I'm guessing and that doesn't look anywhere close either.

The Ban Johnson is stamped onto the ball. It is an American League ball which would include his stamped signature in the 1920's. I just noticed he died on my birthday. Many years earlier though.

[yanks12025]

Nevermind

[RichardSimon]

Almost hard to believe that someone would try to palm off something that bad.
Could be two old legit sigs on an obviously legit ball and the owner of the ball thought he could pull a fast one?

[prewarsports]

Ruth signature looks like it was gone over (enhanced) years ago by someone with little artistic ability. I would bet a legit (or clubhouse) vintage Ruth had faded from handling over the years and someone went over it to try and still have a Ruth ball. Probably an innocent enhancement and not an attempt at a forgery but the end result is the same which is that signature is not Ruth's.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Ruth signature looks like it was gone over (enhanced) years ago by someone with little artistic ability. I would bet a legit (or clubhouse) vintage Ruth had faded from handling over the years and someone went over it to try and still have a Ruth ball. Probably an innocent enhancement and not an attempt at a forgery but the end result is the same which is that signature is not Ruth's.

+1

[Case12]

If the story holds true it would still be a fun collectible. These history stories are fun...

[Bpm0014]

Ruth signature looks like it was gone over (enhanced) years ago by someone with little artistic ability. I would bet a legit (or clubhouse) vintage Ruth had faded from handling over the years and someone went over it to try and still have a Ruth ball.

No. Ruth wouldn't sign that low on the sweet spot nor would he start his signature that far to the left of center (of the sweet spot)...

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Ruth signature looks like it was gone over (enhanced) years ago by someone with little artistic ability. I would bet a legit (or clubhouse) vintage Ruth had faded from handling over the years and someone went over it to try and still have a Ruth ball.

No. Ruth wouldn't sign that low on the sweet spot nor would he start his signature that far to the left of center (of the sweet spot)...

I agree with this. In addition, the "e" in Babe is way off, and there is no indication of the real version underneath (if it was indeed traced over).