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  #1  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:29 PM
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Christopher Williams
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Default Willie Mays 2003 Forged Counterfeit 2003 Topps Legends Card

Below is a link to my blog on Willie Mays Forged/Counterfeit "2003 Topps Legends" autograph cards.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/p...s-flood-market
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:37 PM
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Wow! Never would've thought something like that would happen.

Great work as usual Chris.
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrightfan85 View Post
Wow! Never would've thought something like that would happen.

Great work as usual Chris.
That was funny, Andy, and thank you.

If anyone knows Ebay seller Comc_consignment, they have one of the Mays forged/counterfeit cards listed.


ComcmaysForgery-2.jpg
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2019, 03:29 PM
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Thank you for posting this!

I've been looking for a certified Mays signed card on ebay recently, and have been considering several of these. I noticed the sudden glut of this card on ebay, and wondered what was going on.

You just saved me from making a big mistake, and I thank you again!

Steve
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2019, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
Thank you for posting this!

I've been looking for a certified Mays signed card on ebay recently, and have been considering several of these. I noticed the sudden glut of this card on ebay, and wondered what was going on.

You just saved me from making a big mistake, and I thank you again!

Steve
Steve, thank you and you're welcome.

Probably the same source as the Jeter and Koufax forged/counterfeit cards.
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2019, 03:55 PM
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And please be extra careful.

PSA has certed at least two of these.



dgmaysPSAForgery-100.jpg

dgmaysPSAForgery-101.jpg
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2019, 06:47 PM
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PSA probably doesn't even look at them since it's from Topps. They figure Topps did there homework on them so why waste our time we'll just collect the money and slab them and call them good.
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2019, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithsky View Post
PSA probably doesn't even look at them since it's from Topps. They figure Topps did there homework on them so why waste our time we'll just collect the money and slab them and call them good.
Exactly.

That's just sloppy "authenticating."
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2019, 10:33 PM
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SMH, smh.
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:08 AM
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When talking about Mays autos, donít forget about these.

89BB6EE8-E454-4941-8CA0-14196C87DE2E.jpg
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  #11  
Old 09-25-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
When talking about Mays autos, donít forget about these.

Attachment 367003
I will look into that, Adam.

Thank you.

Everything takes time, but thank you.
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2019, 03:03 PM
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Christopher Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
When talking about Mays autos, donít forget about these.

Attachment 367003
Adam, what year is that Topps card?
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2019, 03:27 PM
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I found it, Adam.

Yep--Forged and Counterfeit.
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2019, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Exactly.

That's just sloppy "authenticating."
That's just cashing a check.
Not much expertise needed for that.
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2019, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRBAKER View Post
That's just cashing a check.
Not much expertise needed for that.
Very disappointing that this happens.
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  #16  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I found it, Adam.

Yep--Forged and Counterfeit.
Several sold in the past couple of months and plenty more listed right now.
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2019, 06:49 AM
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I feel that the first fake auto in the thread closely matches all those signed 8x10 with the fake "Say Hey" hologram that we've been seeing the last couple of years.
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:59 PM
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh crap. I might own one of these 1996 Wille Mays.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2019, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Fan View Post
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh crap. I might own one of these 1996 Wille Mays.
Most collectors own at least one of the New Jersey autos. I have a Jeter. Thereís also Kobe, Ali, Unitas, Koufax, Harper, Pujols, Starr and maybe a few others.
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2019, 07:49 PM
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I took a picture of it. I don't exactly know what to look for, but I assume it's now a fake.

This is the first time in my collecting career that I KNOW something of mine is now likely a forgery, and it feels really crappy.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_6007.jpg (71.2 KB, 252 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6008.jpg (66.5 KB, 252 views)
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  #21  
Old 09-26-2019, 09:20 PM
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Christopher Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Fan View Post
I took a picture of it. I don't exactly know what to look for, but I assume it's now a fake.

This is the first time in my collecting career that I KNOW something of mine is now likely a forgery, and it feels really crappy.
Unfortunately, it is a forged/counterfeit card.
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  #22  
Old 09-26-2019, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Unfortunately, it is a forged/counterfeit card.
Oh, man. Wow. So, this is what it feels like.

Thanks for letting me know.
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  #23  
Old 09-26-2019, 10:37 PM
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What's crazy is that I bought this in 2018 because I had heard so many shady things about the Say Hey holo and wanted to just have an example I knew for sure was real. Haha.
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  #24  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Fan View Post
What's crazy is that I bought this in 2018 because I had heard so many shady things about the Say Hey holo and wanted to just have an example I knew for sure was real. Haha.
That's why when I observe and opine an autograph, I only look at the autograph.

I do not allow any other "distraction" when opining an autograph.
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  #25  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:09 PM
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If anyone communicates with Ebay seller Dacardworld, hopefully someone can inform him of his forged/counterfeit Willie Mays listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-TOPPS-...6c68%7Ciid%3A1




dcardmays-1.jpg

dcardmays-2A.jpg
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  #26  
Old 09-28-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Fan View Post
I took a picture of it. I don't exactly know what to look for, but I assume it's now a fake.

This is the first time in my collecting career that I KNOW something of mine is now likely a forgery, and it feels really crappy.
If you're buying things like that Mays during your collecting career, I can guaraneffentee you have at least 50% in your collection that are "likely forgery" Likely They ARE FORGERIES, not likely forgeries. WAKE UP!
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  #27  
Old 09-28-2019, 12:32 PM
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Things are getting so bad out there, I've almost relegated myself to only buying on the B/S/T on this site.
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  #28  
Old 09-28-2019, 12:36 PM
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Default Willie Mays 1996-97 Topps Forged Counterfeit Cards

My thread on the 1996-97 Willie Mays Topps autographed forged/counterfeit cards.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...s-commemorativ
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  #29  
Old 09-28-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
If you're buying things like that Mays during your collecting career, I can guaraneffentee you have at least 50% in your collection that are "likely forgery" Likely They ARE FORGERIES, not likely forgeries. WAKE UP!
Based on this situation and also your opinion, I've decided to throw my collection away except for the ones that I got in person.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2019, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
And please be extra careful.

PSA has certed at least two of these.



Attachment 366965

Attachment 366966
I have to make a correction here.

The above card (forged Willie Mays) was not certed by PSA.

Only the card was graded.

This is something I just learned today.

If the above card was certed by PSA, it would read "PSA/DNA Cert."
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  #31  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:47 PM
homerunhitter homerunhitter is offline
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So what are we as collectors to do? Seems like most people here donít like TPAs. So if you canít trust PSA, JSA, Beckett ,SGV etc, and now it looks like even things with topps certified authentic logo are fake if you canít trust companies like topps then what do we collectors do!! Itís seems like 90% of autographs out there are fake. ☹️
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  #32  
Old 09-30-2019, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I have to make a correction here.



The above card (forged Willie Mays) was not certed by PSA.



Only the card was graded.



This is something I just learned today.



If the above card was certed by PSA, it would read "PSA/DNA Cert."


Shouldnít any card with a forged sig at least get a MK qualifier?
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2019, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I have to make a correction here.

The above card (forged Willie Mays) was not certed by PSA.

Only the card was graded.

This is something I just learned today.

If the above card was certed by PSA, it would read "PSA/DNA Cert."

So, they authenticated a counterfeit card, and graded it a PSA 9.

Steve
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  #34  
Old 10-01-2019, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerunhitter View Post
So what are we as collectors to do? Seems like most people here don’t like TPAs. So if you can’t trust PSA, JSA, Beckett ,SGV etc, and now it looks like even things with topps certified authentic logo are fake if you can’t trust companies like topps then what do we collectors do!! It’s seems like 90% of autographs out there are fake. ☹️
If you use all the resources at your disposal, you can safely build a collection that has a high probability of not containing fakes:
  • Study yourself
  • Network with other knowledgeable collectors
  • Use reputable TPAs with the understanding they are a professional opinion, but not infallible and not expert in every autograph in existence.

Last edited by Mr. Zipper; 10-01-2019 at 08:06 PM.
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  #35  
Old 10-01-2019, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
So, they authenticated a counterfeit card, and graded it a PSA 9.

Steve
It should have never made it past the grading process. You don't even need to analyze the autograph... the card obviously has a grainy, low resolution image and off kilter foil stamping that screams counterfeit.
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  #36  
Old 10-01-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
That's why when I observe and opine an autograph, I only look at the autograph.

I do not allow any other "distraction" when opining an autograph.
I'm amazed at what the people who are really familiar with the signatures can do in that way.

For me, that stuff takes a long time to learn I just passed a decade of reading stuff here, and still can only get the big ones like Mantle and Ruth right a bit over half the time. Probably still in the coin toss range.

What for me is quick are the distractions, so I always start with those. Is the object "right"? Did it exist while the signer was alive? Does it make any sense at all?
What's odd is that I can eliminate quite a few that way.

I also don't buy any expensive ones, which helps. But odds are even some of my cheap ones are fake in some way.
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  #37  
Old 10-01-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
If you use all the resources at your disposal, you can safely build a collection that has a high probability of not containing fakes:
  • Study yourself
  • Network with other knowledgeable collectors
  • Use reputable TPAs with the understanding they are a professional opinion, but not infallible and not expert is every autograph in existence.
Steve,
People would actually have to care first. Itís a lot easier to just buy something then blame someone else when it doesnít work out the way you expected.
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  #38  
Old 10-01-2019, 01:38 PM
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Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Last edited by homerunhitter; 10-01-2019 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
I'm amazed at what the people who are really familiar with the signatures can do in that way.

For me, that stuff takes a long time to learn I just passed a decade of reading stuff here, and still can only get the big ones like Mantle and Ruth right a bit over half the time. Probably still in the coin toss range.

What for me is quick are the distractions, so I always start with those. Is the object "right"? Did it exist while the signer was alive? Does it make any sense at all?
What's odd is that I can eliminate quite a few that way.

I also don't buy any expensive ones, which helps. But odds are even some of my cheap ones are fake in some way.
Steve, I really appreciate your comment.

Every week, my "eye" picks up something new about a particular autograph.

The learning process never stops.

And to be honest, I have tried numerous times (ask Steve Zarelli) "to stop caring" and walk away from this, but when I observe an issue like forged/counterfeit cards, I can sucked back in, because I do care.

Like Michael Corleone once said "Just when I thought I was out--they pull me back in."
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  #40  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
Steve,
People would actually have to care first. Itís a lot easier to just buy something then blame someone else when it doesnít work out the way you expected.
I donít think thatís a fair comment. People buy these cards because they are a guaranteed genuine autograph from the manufacturer. There was never a reason to question these cards before. You are talking about a pack certified autographed card. And to the naked eye they did a great job with upper deck and Topps holograms and silver/gold foil. I was shocked when I got mine back from BGS as counterfeit. It wasnít that I didnít care - I just didnít know this was possible. Itís important to spread the word on these boards to make everyone else aware too.
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  #41  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
So, they authenticated a counterfeit card, and graded it a PSA 9.

Steve
Yes.
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  #42  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
I donít think thatís a fair comment. People buy these cards because they are a guaranteed genuine autograph from the manufacturer. There was never a reason to question these cards before. You are talking about a pack certified autographed card. And to the naked eye they did a great job with upper deck and Topps holograms and silver/gold foil. I was shocked when I got mine back from BGS as counterfeit. It wasnít that I didnít care - I just didnít know this was possible. Itís important to spread the word on these boards to make everyone else aware too.
Adam, you make a good point.

When I scan certain autographs on Ebay, I never examine the pack-pulled autographs. Just never thought i had to.

The only reason that I caught on to the forged/counterfeit Derek Jeter "1995 Upper Deck" autograph cards was because the forgery was so bad and it stuck out like a sore thumb.
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  #43  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:15 AM
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Just because itís ďpack certifiedĒ doesnít make it authentic either. Too much blind trust in everything. Do your own homework and stop letting other people tell you what is right and wrong.

Iím not saying those comments specifically to a specific card. Itís just become way too commonplace for people to assume something. Just because someone else says something is good doesnít make it good.
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  #44  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:46 AM
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AHH,

Glad other people noticed it...I posted a video on this when I immediately realized I had a fake from some eBayer TNTNorthNJ or something like that...

Those 1996 reprints are only supposed to have 60 or so of each, and the one card keeps popping up CONSTANTLY....def forgery and the fake stamp concerns me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8YMJkv24Tc&t=106s
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  #45  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:28 PM
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Just as a reminder, in addition to the Mays cards, here are some other cards which have been sold with them in quantity.

76FEE68E-BCD0-4161-AA13-CB75120AD8F3.jpg 748121A4-BCB2-4354-8C5A-AF85F860E04A.jpg
BF9EF189-D641-4B2A-B586-FACDB9E0D4CC.jpg 8A284C1F-408F-46E6-8A3F-22CE175D9814.jpg
9C170B24-6CFE-4B73-83C5-7C5A0D46A829.jpg 3B5234A6-95C1-4904-91D3-B6B112D7FC51.jpg
AA404A3D-CF84-40A4-8D73-AA808855D7F9.jpg 12CA4283-4D5E-4E5C-8886-2F1E9E9369F8.jpg
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  #46  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
Just as a reminder, in addition to the Mays cards, here are some other cards which have been sold with them in quantity.

Attachment 367972 Attachment 367973
Attachment 367974 Attachment 367975
Attachment 367976 Attachment 367977
Attachment 367978 Attachment 367979
Yep.

I've posted blogs on the Jeter, Koufax and Mays forged/counterfeit cards.

I will be posting a blog on the Johnny Unitas forged/counterfeit "2001 Upper Deck" autograph cards.

I am also debating posting YouTube videos on the aforementioned.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Yep.

I've posted blogs on the Jeter, Koufax and Mays forged/counterfeit cards.

I will be posting a blog on the Johnny Unitas forged/counterfeit "2001 Upper Deck" autograph cards.

I am also debating posting YouTube videos on the aforementioned.
I believe that a good portion of collectors have at least one of these. They are rampant online and I see them at shows. Put the word out wherever you can.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:32 PM
homerunhitter homerunhitter is offline
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I thought ďpack certifiedĒ autographs were pretty much as close as authentic as possible???
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:57 PM
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I thought ďpack certifiedĒ autographs were pretty much as close as authentic as possible???
The cards that came from Topps and Upper Deck are fine. These are not from them. They are counterfeit cards. Someone made these cards and forged the signatures.

As I said, they are very good fakes. They have foil and holograms from Topps and Upper Deck. It fooled me.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:08 PM
homerunhitter homerunhitter is offline
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Thank you for your response on this. I ask because I was starting to get worried because I got rid of a ton of psa certified hof autographs (sold on eBay) and used that money to ďupgradeĒ my hof collection to pack certified hof autographs because I wanted to be 110% sure my autographs were real ( instead of those slabbed and authenticated by psa, Sgc, Beckett, JSA ..etc then I saw this thread and was like good grief! What are we as collectors suppose to do!? I bought pack pulled autos to eliminate any doubt whatsoever!!! So thank you for reassuring me that pack pulled autographs are authentic.
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