Question on ebay returns (after 30 days)

[Frankish]

Out of thousands of purchases over 20 years, I've probably returned less than five ebay items. But somehow now I find myself with three items I want to return, all after the initial 30-day window offered in the listings. Admittedly, I went on a bit of a buying spree the last couple of months, which may account for it. I'd consider all of the items "fakes" in one way or another, and charitably one might say they are simply not as described:

1. An autographed baseball card from the 50s. When it arrived, I wasn't ecstatic about the signature so decided to get it authenticated. It just came back from Beckett marked as inauthentic.

2. A photo that was listed (very clearly) as Type 1 but came back Type 3 from PSA Authentication services. In fairness, this photo looked quite good and I wasn't initially suspicious...I'm just in the habit now of getting any valuable ones authenticated, mostly in case something happens to me and my family has to sell them. But i'm not sure it's fair I should be left holding the bag just because I was the one who sought authentication.

3. A fairly expensive (to me...low four-figures) card that I sent to PSA for grading express service and just came back as ungraded/signs of trimming.

In all cases, the 30-day window passed because the authentication/grading service took longer than that to examine and return the items.

I contacted one of the sellers who said their return window was closed and plan to contact the remaining two sellers this week. But I just want to know if there is there some sort of blanket policy at ebay for fakes or misrepresented items with a longer window, that way I have my facts straight when I contact them.

Sorry if this has been covered endlessly or should be in another section. I looked around and couldn't find any definitive answers.

Thanks in advance!

[Eric72]

At first blush, it seems reasonable to seek returns on any (or all) of those.

Type 1/Type 3 listing or the trimmed card:
If the listing and the item don't match up, an "item not as described" path makes sense.

The fake autograph:
Selling forgeries is a pretty serious offense. If I were the buyer, this is a case where I'd consider "outing" the seller if not refunded. Even if refunded, I might post their name here. It would depend on the professionalism of the seller.

[bnorth]

Luckily in over 20 years on eBay I have never had this problem. I would return all 3. If the sellers won't refund I would contact eBay ASAP and try to explain the serious problems with each item. Best of luck.

[hcv123]

I just read through parts of Ebay return policies. The part that seems applicable here is :

"Extensions
In some limited situations, we may extend the time frames specified above for buyers and/or sellers to take action and meet eBay Money Back Guarantee requirements.

In individual cases, extensions may be offered to take into consideration factors such as the buyer's location, the shipping service used, whether tracking is available to show the status of a shipment, a seller's extended return window, or other circumstances such as fraud"

In all 3 cases "Fraud" could be claimed as each of the items was represented to be something it was not. The only question becomes what was the sellers intent - did they know?, etc. In practical reality I would think Ebay would side with you - though haven't encountered a situation like this as a buyer or seller.

I would start by contacting each seller and see if they will accept the return, if not I would get in touch with Ebay customer service and let them know that the reason for the timing was simply the time it took to get the items back from the authenticators.

I would definitely "out" any sellers who don't make this right for you without needing to involve Ebay.

[Jobu]

1 and 2 you are definitely covered no matter what the seller says. They sold you things that Ebay-approved experts say are not as described.

The trimmed card depends. If it was a listing for just a card with no statements on guaranteeing a grade, only that it is real, then to me that one is probably on you. If the description, or a message exchange, had the seller saying that it was unaltered, then that would definitely qualify for a return as well.

[LACardsGuy]

with Ebay, the seller is never right. buyer can get refunded for any claim any time. there is no 30 day window for any situation like these. particularly on anything that goes to the high dollar reps.

Originally Posted by Jobu

1 and 2 you are definitely covered no matter what the seller says. They sold you things that Ebay-approved experts say are not as described.

The trimmed card depends. If it was a listing for just a card with no statements on guaranteeing a grade, only that it is real, then to me that one is probably on you. If the description, or a message exchange, had the seller saying that it was unaltered, then that would definitely qualify for a return as well.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Jobu

1 and 2 you are definitely covered no matter what the seller says. They sold you things that Ebay-approved experts say are not as described.

The trimmed card depends. If it was a listing for just a card with no statements on guaranteeing a grade, only that it is real, then to me that one is probably on you. If the description, or a message exchange, had the seller saying that it was unaltered, then that would definitely qualify for a return as well.

unless stated otherwise. A seller is responsible for an accurate description - selling a card without mentioning an alteration is not accurate (imo).

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by LACardsGuy

with Ebay, the seller is never right. buyer can get refunded for any claim any time. there is no 30 day window for any situation like these. particularly on anything that goes to the high dollar reps.

That's not entirely true. Imagine someone attempting to return a graded card they purchased in 2020.

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by Jobu

The trimmed card depends. If it was a listing for just a card with no statements on guaranteeing a grade, only that it is real, then to me that one is probably on you. If the description, or a message exchange, had the seller saying that it was unaltered, then that would definitely qualify for a return as well.

You have a point. I guess I'll just try and see where it ends up.

If I remember correctly, the listing probably didn't specifically say un-altered. Of course, it didn't say un-radioactive or un-soaked-in-cat-piss, but I'd hope the burden of disclosure would be on the seller....

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Frankish

You have a point. I guess I'll just try and see where it ends up.

If I remember correctly, the listing probably didn't specifically say un-altered. Of course, it didn't say un-radioactive or un-soaked-in-cat-piss, but I'd hope the burden of disclosure would be on the seller....

Did the seller give it a grade, either numerical or otherwise? That might matter. For example, cards in "Poor" condition are still considered to be unaltered.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by hcv123

unless stated otherwise. A seller is responsible for an accurate description - selling a card without mentioning an alteration is not accurate (imo).

If the seller didn't mention anything about condition than he also hasn't misrepresented the condition. The buyer had the card and could make his own decision within the return period. Why does a seller have to accept the opinion of a 3rd party that they may not trust and extend the return period as a result? I think it would be fair to say not everyone trusts PSA and there is plenty of documentation to show they can be wrong. People should take responsibility for their own decisions and not rely on others. That said, Ebay being Ebay they probably would agree with the buyer so it makes more sense as a seller to just take the return and move on.

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Did the seller give it a grade, either numerical or otherwise? That might matter. For example, cards in "Poor" condition are still considered to be unaltered.

It was part of a small lot where the cards were described as NM/EXMT. I've contacted the seller and am waiting to hear back.

Just to be clear, I'm not here to vent or cast shade on the sellers (who, save one, haven't responded yet). Just trying to understand ebay's policy so I know where I stand when approaching them.

[swarmee]

So how did you pay on eBay? Most credit card companies (or PayPal) have a 180-day return policy that applies to items you buy online as well. You might be better off going straight to the credit card company or PayPal if you used one of them to make the purchase.
PayPal may have just changed their policies on trading cards because of all the fraud recently, so your mileage may vary.

[Directly]

As long as you provide proof of the items as you claim not as described, the seller should understand its NOT buyers remorse and issue a full refund upon receipt--although not real sure who would be responsible for the return shipping cost beyond the 30 day window--something that could be worked out eBay recommendations--

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

If the seller didn't mention anything about condition than he also hasn't misrepresented the condition. The buyer had the card and could make his own decision within the return period. Why does a seller have to accept the opinion of a 3rd party that they may not trust and extend the return period as a result? I think it would be fair to say not everyone trusts PSA and there is plenty of documentation to show they can be wrong. People should take responsibility for their own decisions and not rely on others. That said, Ebay being Ebay they probably would agree with the buyer so it makes more sense as a seller to just take the return and move on.

regarding a discrepancy of opinion on IF the card in fact is trimmed or has any alteration for that matter. That said, I do believe it incumbent on a seller to be "expert" enough to be able to recognize and disclose alteration if it exists and if they make an honest mistake to stand behind the product they are selling.

[TedWill1939]

I'll be in the minority and ask what happened to caveat emptor? Expecting ebay sellers to be experts is a bit of a misnomer. Plenty of folks selling things from their basements and yard sle pick ups not everyone is a "dealer". I think it is up to the collector to have the knowledge about what they are buying. 30 day return policies leave the door wide open to abuse. Seems to me that 7 days should be enough time to figuire out what we have bought, by relying on our own wisdom or opinions from trusted collectors. IMO, deals should be completed in a timely manner, if you come out wrong, its a lesson learned.

[RL]

file a inad through ebay....

if that fails, if you paid through paypal, file a inad through paypal....

if that fails, if you payment was with a cc, file a chargeback with your credit card

good luck