1914 Cracker Jack~~PRATT vs CADY~~

[CrackaJackKid]

Due to the elevated popularity in today's hobby almost every card in the 1914 set is obtainable considering you have deep enough pockets for some. But the two heavyweights that are considerably the toughest I feel are the Forest Cady and the Del Pratt. Current Population reports..
Cady
PSA-12
SGC-9
21 Total

Pratt
PSA-14
SGC-10
24 Total

Although I've heard many people reference the Pratt as the toughest card to obtain I feel the Cady takes the cake. Not only due to the pop reports but in the last two years since I have been following these cards hot and heavy I've seen twice as many Pratts come up for sale then Cadys. Just curious as to what everyone else's take on it is....

[Donscards]

I also think the Cady is the toughest. Last time I had one was 25-30 years ago. I sold a Pratt last year.

[Sean]

It seems like the Pratt should be the toughest. A collector trying to assemble a "master set" of Cracker Jacks could settle for a 1915 Cady, but he would need the 1914 Pratt to complete the set.

In the last Goodwin there was a Cady and a Pratt, both graded 3.5. The Cady sold for around $3,500, but the Pratt went for $7,800 if I remember correctly.

[scooter729]

There are a couple of others like Becker and Keating, which have very similar low pops on PSA and SGC. They get premiums, but not quite like Cady and Pratt.

Becker has a 24 pop (15 and 9), so same as Pratt, but a PSA 1 (albeit rough) just went for $405 a few days ago. A premium for sure, but nowhere near Cady / Pratt territory, for one deemed just as tough per the pop reports.

Is it more like perceived relative toughness of those, since it's known that they're hard to find, vs. actually checking the pop reports to see a few other similar tough cards not getting those same premiums?

[CrackaJackKid]

But then you have cards like the Sherry Magee that have a 34 total pop but yet rarely surface for sale and fetch a vast premium. Just like the Cady, very Low Pop and rarely surfaces. Plus the pop reports are probably off due to crossovers. I know of one Cady for sure that did. I'm still convinced it's Cady.

[T_Hamilton]

In my opinion the Cady is more rare, although the Pratt carries the stigma of this elusive unicorn. Also think there are some other cards that are very rare as well according to the pop reports but do not sell for near the premium that Pratty or Cady do.

[CrackaJackKid]

Personally, I'd rather have a Cady then a Pratt any day. It blows my mind some of the prices that Pratt fetches. I guess them guys going after master sets.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

Personally, I'd rather have a Cady then a Pratt any day. It blows my mind some of the prices that Pratt fetches. I guess them guys going after master sets.

Speaking of which, wouldn't you rather have a Jackson than a Mathewson?

[CW]

I'm going with whatever rainier2004 thinks.



If the Cady is tougher than Pratt or at least equally as difficult to find, why is there such a huge price disparity between the two? I'm surprised the prices haven't adjusted over time as collectors have realized that Cady is just as tough as Pratt (ie. either prices for Pratt cards come down to Cady levels or Cady cards go up).

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by Sean

Speaking of which, wouldn't you rather have a Jackson that a Mathewson?

Matty>JJ

Can't beat the Horizontal pitching pose.

[swarmee]

Then you also have the age-old question of whether the "rarer" card gets submitted to graders more often than the more common cards. For those with raw sets, do most of them include both Cady and Pratt, or only one?

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Then you also have the age-old question of whether the "rarer" card gets submitted to graders more often than the more common cards. For those with raw sets, do most of them include both Cady and Pratt, or only one?

A couple of guys I have seen their raw collection with Pratt in it, not Cady.

[Leon]

That is interesting, actually. Pratt has the reputation. And others are close in proximity, in scarcity, but don't get the money either. What a money grab for set collectors ....

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

A couple of guys I have seen their raw collection with Pratt in it, not Cady.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by CW

I'm going with whatever rainier2004 thinks.



If the Cady is tougher than Pratt or at least equally as difficult to find, why is there such a huge price disparity between the two? I'm surprised the prices haven't adjusted over time as collectors have realized that Cady is just as tough as Pratt (ie. either prices for Pratt cards come down to Cady levels or Cady cards go up).

That made me laugh!

Pratt is the unicorn also needed for the master set which seems to be a tad more popular these days. I know 5 guys w/ complete sets which means they have both cards. The Pratt has been attempted to cross and upgrade more IMO than the Cady...Pratt is THE unicorn.

[CrackaJackKid]

Here's my top ten by how often I see them come up for sale.

1.Hick Cady
2.Donnie Bush
3.Matty/Magee
4.Bresnahan No#
5.Peckinpaugh
6.Pratt
7.Keating
8.Beals Becker
9.Nixey Callahan/Alexander
10.Rebel Oakes/Daubert/Barger

I'm sure no one will agree but this is just my opinion by how often I see them.

[Leon]

I used to have a Bressy no # and at the time he didn't seem that tough...

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

Here's my top ten by how often I see them come up for sale.

1.Hick Cady
2.Donnie Bush
3.Matty/Magee
4.Bresnahan No#
5.Peckinpaugh
6.Pratt
7.Keating
8.Beals Becker
9.Nixey Callahan/Alexander
10.Rebel Oakes/Daubert/Barger

I'm sure no one will agree but this is just my opinion by how often I see them.

[CrackaJackKid]

JJ,Cobb & Wagner are a dime a dozen in the big auction houses. I'm partial to rarity then big ticket priced ones. Mainly due to the crazy money they command.
At the end of the day it's just a hobby for me, not a strategic investment.

[jsq]

good news for those seeking some of the rarer cracker jack cards with low pops.


in the 1970's their were a lot of big collectors who just loved cards, they were not investors. investors did not really exist in the hobby for the most part in the mid-70's. these big time collectors would never have a card graded (when grading did finally arrive). they had the cash and they had the access to cracker jack cards that were only 40, 50 yrs old when they started accumulating in the 1950's onward.

think about that for a minute, in 1964 the cracker jacks were 50 yrs old. today 1952 topps are 65 yrs old and very few people were serious collectors until the mid 1970's so their was no real huge reason to save 1952 topps for the most part until the early 1970's YET a large qty of those 52 topps cards exist today, go look at how many high number mickeys exist for perspective.

stuff has a way of hanging around.

some of these guys are still around and not active, most are quite old. (i have no cards anymore so no need to ask). most of these guys passed on and their heirs are still SITTING on their cards.

condition was not always great, by todays slab stds (and sometimes suspicious slabbed cards) but all that mattered was you completed a set.

my point is their are a lot more of the old sets out their then people of today realize, and it is a big question as to when they will enter the hobby again.

more perspective: about 27 yrs ago a friend of mine took me to see one of the worlds greatest "xyz" collections (for the owners, privacy i won't even mention the non sports category i am using to make this point). i personally held 2 of a rare item which only about 50 were known to exist, yet here in my hand were 2 that were not known by that hobby of 1990 ( other then me and the my friend, they are still not known in the respective hobby. )

in 1990 and today, these items were pricewise comporable to t-206 wagners, and that was just the tip of the iceberg of what was in that safe. this collection was assembled in the early 1900's and was known 110 yrs ago. by 1990 it was unknown and remains unknown to the xyz hobby.

the person i knew who took me to see the collection was a big time collector of this mystery category and did not know the collection existed. this was ironic since my friend had a VERY close connection with the heirs of the collection. he was stunned when i told him what was sortof hiding under his nose so to speak. he checked and verified the collection was still intact and had sat in a safe pretty much undisturbed since the 1920's. only because of my friends personal connection did i get to tag along and see it. (i learned of it from old publications... think that one through for a minute and that is how you may find what you seek!!)

for further perspective, in the room the very large safe was in, they had a very rare item on display, it was fading in the sun for the better part of 70 or more yrs, YIKES!!. i was told to shut my yap and not make any suggestions - (like GET THAT ITEM OUT OF THE SUN!!!!). the owners were, shall we say, kinda touchy. if i opened my yap my friend would never be allowed back to visit. and interestingly enough my friend and i were the only two people in the room. the current owner let us in, opened the safe and came back a few hours later. that collection has sat intact to this day from what i understand. from what we gathered no one besides the owners had set their eyes on the collection since at least the 1930's. money cannot buy this collection. (no i do not have any collections of anything today, most of my stuff was non sports cards related and ended up gifted to museums, so i have no axe to grind. my wife and i became minimalists).

i have known this to be the case in other very high end collectibles where i have known owners of the item that were definately not counted in the guesstimated total pops of their non sport hobby.

so back to your question, their may be only 10 to 15 possible floating around, so to speak, according to grading company pops, of 1914 cracker jack sets in sight. but their may well be twice that many 1914 cracker jack complete sets. the others are just not visible. 25 to 30 would be my guess based on my 1970's wandering around. some of them may shake loose someday.

all the best,

[Leon]

A very late response to this post as I searched the internet to find some CJ answers. I think there are still a lot more collections to be found. It seems they happen almost monthly, if not more.

Originally Posted by jsq

good news for those seeking some of the rarer cracker jack cards with low pops.


in the 1970's their were a lot of big collectors who just loved cards, they were not investors. investors did not really exist in the hobby for the most part in the mid-70's. these big time collectors would never have a card graded (when grading did finally arrive). they had the cash and they had the access to cracker jack cards that were only 40, 50 yrs old when they started accumulating in the 1950's onward.

think about that for a minute, in 1964 the cracker jacks were 50 yrs old. today 1952 topps are 65 yrs old and very few people were serious collectors until the mid 1970's so their was no real huge reason to save 1952 topps for the most part until the early 1970's YET a large qty of those 52 topps cards exist today, go look at how many high number mickeys exist for perspective.

stuff has a way of hanging around.

some of these guys are still around and not active, most are quite old. (i have no cards anymore so no need to ask). most of these guys passed on and their heirs are still SITTING on their cards.

condition was not always great, by todays slab stds (and sometimes suspicious slabbed cards) but all that mattered was you completed a set.

my point is their are a lot more of the old sets out their then people of today realize, and it is a big question as to when they will enter the hobby again.

more perspective: about 27 yrs ago a friend of mine took me to see one of the worlds greatest "xyz" collections (for the owners, privacy i won't even mention the non sports category i am using to make this point). i personally held 2 of a rare item which only about 50 were known to exist, yet here in my hand were 2 that were not known by that hobby of 1990 ( other then me and the my friend, they are still not known in the respective hobby. )

in 1990 and today, these items were pricewise comporable to t-206 wagners, and that was just the tip of the iceberg of what was in that safe. this collection was assembled in the early 1900's and was known 110 yrs ago. by 1990 it was unknown and remains unknown to the xyz hobby.

the person i knew who took me to see the collection was a big time collector of this mystery category and did not know the collection existed. this was ironic since my friend had a VERY close connection with the heirs of the collection. he was stunned when i told him what was sortof hiding under his nose so to speak. he checked and verified the collection was still intact and had sat in a safe pretty much undisturbed since the 1920's. only because of my friends personal connection did i get to tag along and see it. (i learned of it from old publications... think that one through for a minute and that is how you may find what you seek!!)

for further perspective, in the room the very large safe was in, they had a very rare item on display, it was fading in the sun for the better part of 70 or more yrs, YIKES!!. i was told to shut my yap and not make any suggestions - (like GET THAT ITEM OUT OF THE SUN!!!!). the owners were, shall we say, kinda touchy. if i opened my yap my friend would never be allowed back to visit. and interestingly enough my friend and i were the only two people in the room. the current owner let us in, opened the safe and came back a few hours later. that collection has sat intact to this day from what i understand. from what we gathered no one besides the owners had set their eyes on the collection since at least the 1930's. money cannot buy this collection. (no i do not have any collections of anything today, most of my stuff was non sports cards related and ended up gifted to museums, so i have no axe to grind. my wife and i became minimalists).

i have known this to be the case in other very high end collectibles where i have known owners of the item that were definately not counted in the guesstimated total pops of their non sport hobby.

so back to your question, their may be only 10 to 15 possible floating around, so to speak, according to grading company pops, of 1914 cracker jack sets in sight. but their may well be twice that many 1914 cracker jack complete sets. the others are just not visible. 25 to 30 would be my guess based on my 1970's wandering around. some of them may shake loose someday.

all the best,

[RealToppsaholic]

I'm just amazed how much tougher 14 cj's are versus 15's

15 cjs are like glorified reprints

dime a dozen; I love that expression !

great top ten lists thank you folks

[bigred1]

Still need deep pockets, I tried the 15 set 10 years ago, got halfway through and gave up, wish I had them back. Never got much of 14 done, but trying to rebuild again. lol

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by RealToppsaholic

I'm just amazed how much tougher 14 cj's are versus 15's

15 cjs are like glorified reprints

dime a dozen; I love that expression !

great top ten lists thank you folks

I just love comments like these...really? Glorified reprints? There are no more than 200 examples of any card in the set unlike several sets from that time period. Plus there are a pile of condition rarities, try building a solid mid-grade set as most of the cards are either dogs or been preserved in an album for a century and are in 7 and 8 holders now.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I just love comments like these...really? Glorified reprints? There are no more than 200 examples of any card in the set unlike several sets from that time period. Plus there are a pile of condition rarities, try building a solid mid-grade set as most of the cards are either dogs or been preserved in an album for a century and are in 7 and 8 holders now.

I actually thought that "glorified reprints" line was pretty funny.

I don't agree with it, but I may steal it when talking with Ted about T213s and T215s.