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  #1  
Old 01-31-2003, 04:44 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Ben

Is it a general consensus that t206 hofers with rare backs do not command as high a premium as commons with rare backs?

Several members on the board have expressed this opinion, reasoning that back collectors don't care who the player is on the front because they are displaying the back...

Thoughts???

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  #2  
Old 01-31-2003, 04:45 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: runscott

yes

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Old 01-31-2003, 04:53 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Ben

Then I am a unique back collector. I really like hofers with rare backs...kind of the 'double whammy'

Any idea of how drastically the back premium is reduced on hofers? 75%? 50%?

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  #4  
Old 01-31-2003, 04:58 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Marc S.

There are exceedingly few instances where the multiples paid for a HOF rare back even come close to approaching the multiples paid for a common with a rare back.

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  #5  
Old 01-31-2003, 05:00 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: runscott

Because you can get them without paying the full associated premium. For instance, I sold a Matty portrait with Brown Hindu back for about 30% more than a common back would go for. I've seen Cy Young and other Matty's generate similar results. Less common 'semi-difficult' backs such as Sovereign and Polar Bear have almost no effect on HOF'ers.

I like your collecting style - why not pay a little extra and get the HOF'er with a scarce back.

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  #6  
Old 01-31-2003, 08:15 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Robert

OK how much would a Cobb red Background with a Lenox back go for in VG? Rob

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  #7  
Old 01-31-2003, 08:51 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: B C Daniels

given the fact price guides state this or that back is "5X" of regular issue there are lots of people who buy into that concept. Now you and I and everyone else except Quans on this board know that for a truly rare card to begin with.....oh let's say a T-206 Chesbro in NM* or a M.Brown with Cubs on shirt in NM* will command great exponents because the card regardless of the back brings a premium and a rare back in this case will raise eyebrows! I had A Matty T-206 with Broadleaf 460 back I sold to Doug Allen and surely it would have great appreciation for the back given the fact the "base" card is both popular and commands greater interest already moe over your "garden variety" Griffith or other less popular HoFer like HAL CHASE** ( just kidding because 13.6% of e-bay sellers think Prince Hal is in the Hall of Fame)but you hate when I'm kidding so back to the serious nature of Ben's question. For the most part,yes is correct but there are tons of rare exceptions like my two examples!
regards & friggin ( copyright from the T-Leon card Co., Denver Colorado ). I put that part in because you love beer* Drink Rolling Rock for best results. : )

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  #8  
Old 02-02-2003, 10:14 AM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: warshawlaw

I'd say that if a card has a big back multiplier for a common then you are typically not going to see a commensurate multiplier for a HOFer with a rare back. While there are a lot of people who will pay $300 for a $30 card with a rare back, there just are not that many people who will pay $2,500 for a $250 card because of the back. The back collectors would prefer to devote the bucks to other rare backs and the HOFer collectors normally don't care enough about the backs to go gaga over them. My selling experience has been that a typical HOFer (i.e., not Cobb, Johnson, Young, Matty) with a tougher back fetches a premium that is a relatively small percentage of the multiplier you might see for a common. I've never been able to double or triple the base price of such a card simply because "book" on a Cycle or Tolstoi is more (examples only; I don't know what the multiplier for these brands is, so don't jump all over me). That being said, I would never be surprised in any given context if a nice card of a HOFer with a rare back at auction went at some ridiculously high multiple over the "normal" version because of a bidding fight.

Personally, I think it is kind of cool to end up with a tougher back HOFer or star and I know I have paid extra for the few I own (Duffy w/American Beauty 460, Chase 460 factory 42) but never a full multiplier.

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Old 02-02-2003, 12:11 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Ben

...vbarning's Evers and Tinker hindu's today. Both were low grade with pencil marks, the Tinker (portrait) ended at about $90, the Evers (cubs on shirt) ended at about $70. Pretty reasonable prices for hofers w/hindu backs if you ask me!

Backs like Hindu, Sovereign, and Polar Bear are just so much nicer looking than the usual Piedmont or Sweet Caporal. That, (along with their added rarity of course) is the reason I am willing to pay healthy premiums for t206 hofers with rare backs.

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  #10  
Old 02-02-2003, 12:51 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: David Williams

That back premiums are more based on a set $$ amount vs. a multiplier? Wouldn't this seem to hold better regarding condition as well? For instance, I doubt a NM/MT example would sell for the same premium with a rare back (in % terms) than a VG example would garner...

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  #11  
Old 02-02-2003, 01:16 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Andy Baran

I think it's great that you have chosen T206 HOFers with Rare Backs as one of your collecting interests, and that you are willing to pay premiums for the cards. However, just keep the following in mind when purchasing the cards:

1.) If you ever have to sell them, you may not be able to get your investment back.

2.) If you use them in trades (and I know you LOVE to trade cards - which is also great), you may have difficulty finding traders who put the same value on the backs as you do.

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  #12  
Old 02-02-2003, 01:44 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Ben

Would you prefer a t206 Johnson in G-VG condition with a Cycle back?

or

A t206 Johnson in VG/EX condition with a Piedmont back?


personally, I'd go with option A!

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  #13  
Old 02-02-2003, 03:35 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Ben
I believe that most of the early back collectors cared very little about the player on the front of the card and prefered to buy commons over hofers because they were cheaper. I believe this trend is begining to change on the more popular Hofers such as Cobb, Johnson, Matty etc and the rarer backs such as Drum, Uzit, Lenox, Hindu(Red)etc, these cards seem to be selling for a significant premium. However lesser Hofers with semi tough backs don't seem to sell for much of a premium at this time. This to may change, it wasn't to long ago that Fact 42 Piedmont's sold for little or no premium.
Most Vintage collectors are begining to realize how rare a Ty Cobb is with a Uzit back(Plug for MW)OR a Matty with a Carolina Brights back. There's probably less than 10 Cobb's /Uzits in existence, and only a few more Matty/Carolina Brights. I think the Demand for rare back Hofers is increasing and will continue to do so. be well brian

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Old 02-02-2003, 04:58 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

Hi Brian what do you think the value of a Ty Cobb Red Background with a Lenox back is? Robert

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  #15  
Old 02-02-2003, 05:07 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Ben

in what condition?

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  #16  
Old 02-02-2003, 06:04 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Robert
Ben's right it depends on condition, but either way it's a tough card to find.


Hi Ben
I don't think you'll have any problem selling or trading Rare back Hofers in the future, I know 5 or 6 Vintage collectors who are always buying, especially ME. I agree the prices were a bit cheap for the Evers& Tinker Hindu's, but they both had serious creases or paper loss which turns most collectors off. VG cards or better seem to attract allot of attention, anything good or less depends on the Popularity of the Player, and the location of the problems on the image.

Be well brian

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  #17  
Old 02-02-2003, 08:06 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: ty_cobb

In the Superior Sportscards auction a VG
Uzit Mcgraw goes for roughly $1200. I picked
up Lake for $400. The demand for the HOF player
will determine the value more so than the back.
Some of the bad boys like Chase and Gandil will
carry a premium over the HOF'ers like Griffith.
In fact I paid more for my Red Hindu Gandil than
the Red Hindu Evers I have.
That being said, I'll be more likely interested
in a HOF'er on a rare back than a common. As a
buyer, the price premium (as in the case of McGraw)
is too much and then I take the common. It
comes down to the $.

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  #18  
Old 02-02-2003, 08:56 PM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Julie

It's the rarified air up there with the HOFers with rare backs that--brings them down a few notches.,(who wants to pay 2500 for a 250 card?) I like my HOFers with rare backs (count them:1): Bender w trees. Carolina Brights. ex-mint. Then I have a Johnson, hands at chest. ex+/ex-mt with a Polar Bear back--i know Polar Bears are not rare, but when you get one that doesn't show tobacco on the front, it's really neat; the back's so dark, and the front so clean.

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  #19  
Old 02-03-2003, 09:31 AM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

The Cobb is in VG. Rob

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  #20  
Old 02-03-2003, 11:39 AM
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Default t206 Hofer's w/rare backs vs. Commons w/rare backs

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Robert
I would guess your Cobb/Lenox is worth 2000-3000.00 and maybe even more to the right collector.
Be well Brian

PS Email me a scan if you can. thanks

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