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  #1  
Old 05-07-2005, 09:23 AM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Since the first discussion seemed to have a favorable response, I figured a thread on tough cabinet cards would also create some interest. How would our cabinet type card collectors rate the following eleven (11) cabinet card issues with regards to most difficult to find.


Jones,Keyser & Arras Cabinets
Betz Studio Cabinets
Carl Horner Cabinets
H801-7 Old Mill Cabinets
M110 Sporting Life Cabinets
Old Judge Cabinets
Newsboy Cabinets
T3 Turkey Red Cabinets
T4 Obak Cabinets
T5 Pinkerton Cabinets
W600 Sporting Life Cabinets

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  #2  
Old 05-07-2005, 09:33 AM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: barrysloate

T4 Obaks and H801-7 Old Mills seem to be the two toughest in your group, but because there have been a few large Obak offerings in the last couple of years and I know of no Old Mill hoards, the toughest is Old Mill. There was a rumor years ago that someone found a Joe Jackson, but I believe that is actually impossible. That might sell for a few shekels if it was actually discovered.

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  #3  
Old 05-07-2005, 10:15 AM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I never really understood why M110 Sporting Life's are referred to as cabinets. They are produced on very thin paper, and by no means are cabinets. Maybe because they look kinda like T3's. But I wouldn't consider them to be in the cabinet category, however they are tough--especially in decent condition.
-Rhett

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  #4  
Old 05-07-2005, 02:22 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: warshawlaw

Mike Wheat has a decent one (I think it is Frank Chance) in his ebay store right now for $2,250.

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  #5  
Old 05-07-2005, 05:51 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: David Smith

I have PG cabinets of actors and actresses but no baseball players (yet).

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  #6  
Old 05-07-2005, 06:14 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Scott Forrest

I think M110's have a better right to be designated "cabinets" than to T3's - M110's are at least representations of photos mounted to a backing board. T3's are simply large cards.

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  #7  
Old 05-07-2005, 07:27 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Julie

?

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  #8  
Old 05-07-2005, 07:36 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: barrysloate

Dukes are cabinets. Doesn't the term "cabinet" refer to the size of the card, all those issues that fall into a group larger than an N173 and no bigger than a Duke. The next size is "imperial cabinet" which is big enough to frame and display but not nearly the size of a "mammoth plate."

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  #9  
Old 05-07-2005, 07:52 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Scott Forrest

but I think the definition also involves what is on the object, not just the size. If I took a piece of board the size of a cabinet card and painted a picture on it, that wouldn't make it a cabinet card...or would it?

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  #10  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:07 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: barrysloate

I neglected to say it has to be printed or photographic. Fair enough.

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  #11  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:30 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Scott Forrest

Since the oversized baseball cards you are discussing were designed based on the popular cabinet cards of the time, my argument is that those which have pictures most closely representing photos attached to them, are closer to being cabinet cards than something like a T3 that has the lithograph applied directly to the backing. But maybe it's truly only size that matters.

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  #12  
Old 05-08-2005, 12:14 AM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: davidcycleback

Not all of the issues in the top list are cabinet cards. However, I think the intended focus was to be about rarity, so it's not a big deal.

As far as rarity goes, here's my guess. I do not claim that my list is accurate or that I put great research into it-- so if folks feel there should be some switching, they might be right. Most of the issues are rare, including some of the rarist in the hobby, so it's things aren't as clearcut as 1990 Donruss versus Just So Tobacco.

T4 Obak Cabinets
Carl Horner T206 Portraits
H801-7 Old Mill Cabinets
Betz Cabinets
Jones,Keyser & Arras Cabinets
T5 Pinkerton Cabinets
Old Judge Cabinets
M110 Sporting Life Cabinets
Newsboy Cabinets
W600 Sporting Life Cabinets
T3 Turkey Red Cabinets

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  #13  
Old 05-08-2005, 11:24 AM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: barrysloate

I think I'd slide the Old Mills out of the three spot and put them as #1 in difficulty, but I otherwise think David's list is right on accurate.

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  #14  
Old 05-08-2005, 01:42 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Scott Forrest

I confused m110's with w600's - certainly if a T3 is a cabinet, than a m110 is also. I'm surprised that Barry and david consider Pinkertons to be rarer than m110s - you rarely see m110's and when you do it's usually the same examples being recirculated.

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  #15  
Old 05-08-2005, 01:51 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: barrysloate

You're right Scott- I noticed after my last post that M110's should have been higher on the list- in fact when was the last time you even saw one in a major auction? It's been awhile.

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  #16  
Old 05-08-2005, 01:58 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: davidcycleback

The one problem with the T5s is that each player is rare, but the set is so large that getting an example is not the hardest thing to do. Each M110 player may be more plentiful than a T5 player, but the M110 set is much smaller so you don't see a M110 on the market as often.

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  #17  
Old 05-08-2005, 02:13 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Ben

I agree with David's ranking as well, for the most part. I do think the N173's could be bumped down a few spots so that they're in between W600's and newsboys.

I also agree with what's been said about M110's....you hardly ever see them available, and when they do show up it's usually either Wagner or Chase and never Matty or Cobb. Although with such a small sample size, it's hard to say if there are actually different levels of rarity within the set itself.

Where do people see the N142 Duke cabinets fitting in on this list? My guess would be somewhere in the 3rd-5th spot....not as tough as the Old Mills T4's and maybe the Horners, but probably a little less common than T5's and JK&A's....thoughts?

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  #18  
Old 05-08-2005, 02:29 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: davidcycleback

I think the M110s are an example of what would have been a good baseball card investment. Just several years ago, an M110 was cheaper than the far more plentiful T3s. Everyone knew and loved the T3s, but the average collector was unfamiliar with the M110s-- a by product of the rarity. It will be interesting to see the M110 prices in ten years.

I must admit that, when judging rarity, I was biased by the way the cards were produced. The M110s are professional looking T3-style premiums issued by a national magazine. Some T5s look like they were produced in a barn. I just figured there had to be more M110s out there than meets the eye.

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  #19  
Old 05-08-2005, 06:05 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Hal Lewis

I have the 1886 "J. Wood" cabinet of the 1886 NY GIants team...

but don't know anything about him or his studio or whether he made other cabinets.

Was the 1886 Giants (team and individuals) his only issue?

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  #20  
Old 05-08-2005, 08:43 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: davidcycleback

Hal, J. Wood (I think his first name is John) was one of the top major league baseball photographers of his day, and made a variety of baseball photos.

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  #21  
Old 05-08-2005, 11:02 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I was away for the weekend, so I couldn't reply. About the M110's--they may be of "cabinet size" but are actually just a very thin piece of paper, they are NOT mounted on a larger piece of cardboard or anything like that. Personally, apart from them looking like T3's they share nothing else in common with any of the cabinet issues. I would almost propose that they would be better termed as a supplement or premium, due to the nature of the card stock.
-Rhett

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  #22  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:04 AM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Thanks for the info on J. Wood!

Interesting to see that he did cabinets of teams from Boston and New York. I guess he was big enough to get around!

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  #23  
Old 05-09-2005, 01:54 PM
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Default Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards

Posted By: davidcycleback

Hal, Wood was one of the photographers for the N172 Old Judge set. He also photographed championship boxers. So he obviously had a good reputation even back in his day.

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