Post-1972 HOF Expansion Era committee

[mighty bombjack]

I have been thinking about this recently, and I was considering posting this in the more general forum, but I'm an autograph collector and it seems this forum needs a bigger variety of threads.

This year the HOF veteran's committee will nominate 10 people who contributed to the game since 1972. I have autographs of 231 members of the HOF, and at the moment can't afford anyone else who is already in, so I like to speculate. Regular ballot guys are easy; I wanna know who you think has a shot on this vet committe ballot.

Here is who I have off the top off my head. These are general possibilities only; PLEASE post any more and disagree with what I got!

Marvin Miller
George Steinbrenner
Charlie Finley
Bruce Froemming
Ed Montague
Tony LaRussa
Bobby Cox
Joe Torre

All thoughts welcome so we can stop arguing about alphabets.

[Mr. Zipper]

Torre and LaRussa are eventual shoe-ins IMO. Cox is borderline, but wouldn't make the cut in my view.

Steinbrenner would be the most interesting debate. He'd be a slam dunk if not for his suspensions.

Curious to hear what others say.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Cox is a first ballot shoe-in. I think the same for both LaRussa and Torre.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Torre and LaRussa are eventual shoe-ins IMO. Cox is borderline, but wouldn't make the cut in my view.

Steinbrenner would be the most interesting debate. He'd be a slam dunk if not for his suspensions.

Curious to hear what others say.

I personally think Cox is in, and deserves it even more so than Torre, whose playing career was far superior but who managed a team that for the most part was gonna win with a chimp at the helm. LaRussa will go, but I think that will only further shine a light on the hypocrisy of steroid-obsessed voters.

For better or worse, Steinbrenner changed the face of baseball (which is my argument for Miller as well). Hell, George once hosted Saturday Night Live! If the "fame" part of Hall of Fame is to be taken literally, Steinbrenner should be in no doubt.

Of course, it all depends on who the group of 16 that vote on this committee are...

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Cox is a first ballot shoe-in. I think the same for both LaRussa and Torre.

Agreed.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

I personally think Cox is in, and deserves it even more so than Torre, whose playing career was far superior but who managed a team that for the most part was gonna win with a chimp at the helm..

I think you are understating the difficulty of managing in New York with the Boss at the helm. if it was as easy as having a star team, the Yankees would have 5 more WS championships in the last 10 years.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I think you are understating the difficulty of managing in New York with the Boss at the helm. if it was as easy as having a star team, the Yankees would have 5 more WS championships in the last 10 years.

Good point, and it's not like winning is hard when you are throwing Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz on the mound all the time.

[MooseDog]

I think LaRussa and Torre and pretty safe.

Finley and Steinbrenner both deserve a look, maybe for different reasons. I am an A's fan having grown up in the Finley era. Looking back there were a lot of things Charlie O. was way ahead of his time.

[dgo71]

Cox, Torre and LaRussa are locks. Their busts should already be carved and just waiting for them to pick up. John Schuerholz gets in this year too I think, making for a very Braves-heavy class.

Steinbrenner I think gets in eventually, but honestly putting him in ahead of Marvin Miller is a slap in the face to someone who was repeatedly slapped in his lifetime. Miller's omission from the HOF is IMO a much more tragic state of affairs than them leaving Santo out until after he had passed.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Cox, Torre and LaRussa are locks. Their busts should already be carved and just waiting for them to pick up. John Schuerholz gets in this year too I think, making for a very Braves-heavy class.

Steinbrenner I think gets in eventually, but honestly putting him in ahead of Marvin Miller is a slap in the face to someone who was repeatedly slapped in his lifetime. Miller's omission from the HOF is IMO a much more tragic state of affairs than them leaving Santo out until after he had passed.

Good call on Schuerholz! I was looking for more names, and the Hall loves GMs that built champions with two different teams.

I totally agree about Miller. He has been one vote off in the last two elections. No way Steinbrenner should (or will IMO) get in before him, because without Miller's work for free agency the Yankees couldn't have been what Steinbrenner made them.

[mr2686]

Ok, here's my take and it's probably not the popular opinion, but Miller, Steinbrenner, Finley, Cox, Torre and LaRussa are all slam dunks in my opinion. Finley and Steinbrenner changed baseball and won multiple championships. Like them or not, they should get in. Miller's not in already just to get back at him. Now that he's gone, he'll get in. Cox, Torre and LaRussa are 3, 4 and 5 on the wins list...behind only Mack and McGraw. If they don't all get in, aren't are standards a bit unreasonable?
That leaves the umpires and unfortunately, I'm more familiar with umps that screw up rather than have great careers so I'll have to pass that on to someone else.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Good call on Schuerholz! I was looking for more names, and the Hall loves GMs that built champions with two different teams.

I totally agree about Miller. He has been one vote off in the last two elections. No way Steinbrenner should (or will IMO) get in before him, because without Miller's work for free agency the Yankees couldn't have been what Steinbrenner made them.

Actually, I think Steinbrenner would have found it easier without free agency...and cheaper. He probably would have done like the Yankees of the 50's and early 60's and used lesser teams as basically farm teams for trades. He could have thrown all kinds of money in with the trades and still have saved tons of money.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Actually, I think Steinbrenner would have found it easier without free agency...and cheaper. He probably would have done like the Yankees of the 50's and early 60's and used lesser teams as basically farm teams for trades. He could have thrown all kinds of money in with the trades and still have saved tons of money.

Yeah, you're right about this. Also, to be fair the Yankees have always been better at bringing talent up than paying for veteran services.

[mighty bombjack]

What are people's thoughts on Lou Piniella? I can't make up my mind whether he's got a strong shot or not...

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Also, to be fair the Yankees have always been better at bringing talent up than paying for veteran services.

Not lately unfortunately. Vernon Wells? Really???

[packs]

I'd love to see Flood get in for his contributions to baseball.

[Griffins]

Torre, LaRussa and Miller should be locks.
No on Steinbrenner as a convicted felon. Cox is the Don Sutton of managers, hanging in a long time but never the best at any one time.

[Exhibitman]

I'd vote for all 3 managers, Steinbrenner and Miller. I don't expect the electors to choose more than 2-3 candidates, just because.

[whyconform]

Good Thread. HOF guys are getting tough for me too..mcgraw was the only affordable guy you needed and glad you finally got one. ...I'm at 210 and hoping to have 212 by next month lol...but I do the same as you and grab potentials while I can. That being said, I have:

Cox/Torre/Stein/Froem/LaRussa autos as I feel they will one day get elected. and Marvin Miller is part of my routine searches.....he was cheap until he passed recently and got a lot of media attention as to why he was not elected. Noticed a significant price spike his his memorabilia, particularly single signed balls.

I'm interested in any additional names outside the ones already mentioned....

[MooseDog]

Finley deserves some love for forward thinking.

We might still be watching clean-shaven, close-cropped players in road Greys and home Whites with no names on the backs of their uniforms.

Not to mention the fact that his being too cheap to pony up $50K owed to Catfish Hunter for a contracted bonus led the way to modern day free agency.

- had ball girls in 1969

- had a mascot (a live mule) in 1963

- had a roving dixieland jazz band play music between innings in the stands 1970

- orange baseball

- colorful knit uniforms (1972). Pirates went knit in 1971 but they were still white and grey

- white shoes!

Still, I think he made too many enemies to get enough votes.

[HRBAKER]

I think all 3 managers are first ballot locks.

[mighty bombjack]

Bumped for any thoughts on Lou Piniella's chances.

[MooseDog]

Piniella strikes me as in the very good, but not great category. I don't think he was HOF caliber as a manager either and certainly not as a broadcaster!

So, methinks no on Sweet Lou.

Had he been able to get the Cubs to the World Series, that would have been a whole 'nother story...

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Bumped for any thoughts on Lou Piniella's chances.

Don't see any difference, managerial, between Piniella and Dusty Baker.

Ken

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Don't see any difference, managerial, between Piniella and Dusty Baker.

Ken

Piniella - no sweatbands, big difference.

[mighty bombjack]

I have been a fan of Piniella's since I attended a Reds game in 1990? and he threw a bunch of crap from the dugout onto the field after getting tossed following a shouting match with an ump. His 3 manager of the year awards notwithstanding, I have to agree that he was good but most likely not Hall bound.

On the other hand, it is always worth knowing exactly who is on the special election committees, as one only needs 12 of those 16 votes. A few of the right connections on that committee is all it takes.

[earlywynnfan]

Time to bring this one back. How about these old-timers?:

Chub Feeney
Buzzie Bavasi

I know, he said Post-72, but these guys technically lasted past that!

Ken

[earlywynnfan]

Or Bob Howsam? Putting together the Big Red Machine should count for something, plus he was an early AFL owner.

When is this vote, anyway?

Ken

[mighty bombjack]

Chub Feeney is a good one that I hadn't considered before.

The ten nominees being considered this year will be announced in November, with the voting happening at the winter meetings and the new HOF members (if any) announced in the first week of the new year.