Mayo John Dunlop Auction

[TanksAndSpartans]

Mike, I think I get it. The bidding went up to 5,200 "naturally". Then toward the end of the auction, the reserve of 10,650 was revealed. That's my guess at least. Did you ever get into the Mayo set?

[jefferyepayne]

Yeah, that is a confusing way to describe it! I didn't look at the bid history ... just the current bid and thought it was bid up to $10,650.

That card is definitely worth more than the $5,200 bid but this is exactly what happens sometimes when there are hidden reserves. People just don't bid it up as they feel bidding is kinda worthless if there's a reserve you're essentially competing against as well as everybody else.

jeff

[revmoran]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Mike, I think I get it. The bidding went up to 5,200 "naturally". Then toward the end of the auction, the reserve of 10,650 was revealed. That's my guess at least. Did you ever get into the Mayo set?

I did and then I sold most of what I had in the first BST auction - one or two didn't sell so I still have an example - I think they are really nice cards, but I just had too much stuff.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by revmoran

I did and then I sold most of what I had in the first BST auction - one or two didn't sell so I still have an example - I think they are really nice cards, but I just had too much stuff.

I can understand . I like the size of the set, the aesthetics and I like the "condition sensitiveness" - to me its more fun trying to find an example with decent eye appeal when the vast majority are pretty beat up. I just can't get into another set where every card is expensive though.

[TanksAndSpartans]

I'm going to bump this one last time as I have to admit, I got really interested.

I found a Beckett source saying that these Mayo cards hit smack in a card dead spot. The jist of it is in 1887, the hobby got Old Judge cards, but in 1890, a tobacco monopoly was formed (ATC) which halted card production which was a way to compete through product differentiation. But, Mayo wasn't part of the tobacco monopoly. They'd have no reason not to issue cards and it could be argued an incentive to do so. Not sure if it's a coincidence, but it looks like Mayo wasn't selling cigarettes either, maybe there was just no way to compete with the monopoly on cigarettes, but they could stay in business selling a different product (I'd call it chewing tobacco, but Mayo's tag line mentions it could be rolled into cigarettes as well). I suspect economic historians have written on this - I'm just speculating.

On the player side, as a pro football collector, I always thought not only are these college players, but you only get three different schools who were football powerhouses at the time, but not in the present day. Then something Jeff wrote in the pre-war thread caught my eye:

Thomas "Doggie" Trenchard played football at Princeton and was an All-American in 1893. He was an early professional football player, playing for the Latrobe Athletic Association and Allegheny Athletic Association from 1895 - 1898.....

How does this fit into pro football history? It could be argued that it's pretty significant. There is a display in the HOF of the Allegheny AA 1892 expense sheet for a game showing they paid Pudge Heffelfinger and two other players. Before that it was thought that John Brallier who played for Latrobe in 1895 was the first pro. My point being, I'm thinking the Trenchard is the earliest card of a pro football player which is pretty cool.

Finally, as someone who lived in Pittsburgh for a time, I like the idea of Pittsburgh as the "cradle of professionalism", but I also think these "social clubs" i.e. athletic associations existed in New York and Chicago as well in the same time period. Hard not to think at least one of them hired some ringers at some point....

[cfhofer]

DezHood,

Given your recent comments regarding Doggie Trenchard and early Pittsburgh Professional Football Teams I thought you may enjoy these two pics. They are 8x10 cabinet photos of the 1899 Duquesne Country and Athletic Club (DC&AC). Some consider this team the first great professional football team. These photos were acquired from the estate of Charles Gelbert (far right, on knee with a nice right-eye shiner). Doggie Trenchard is behind Gelbert.

Cheers

Mark

[TanksAndSpartans]

Wow - nice - thanks Mark. Great items!

[jefferyepayne]

Awesome photos, Mark! Very, very nice. Been looking for a photo of that time for quite a while.

jeff

[JustCollectVP]

My guess is that the "reserve" was $11K. Probably in the neighborhood of the value, but the "gouge" or "scratch-out" in the bottom of the jersey worries me although the overall eye-appeal is much nicer than the typical Fair or Good card.

The N302 is one of my favorite football issues (after '48 Leaf) and I always enjoy reading discussions about them and the opportunity to see and share images. Here are a couple of the favorites in my near set...

[TanksAndSpartans]

Hi Scott - nice cards - glad you jumped in. What's your concern with the issue on the jersey? Are you thinking other TPG won't give higher than an Auth?

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Hi Scott - nice cards - glad you jumped in. What's your concern with the issue on the jersey? Are you thinking other TPG won't give higher than an Auth?

Note that it appears that an "S" is scratched/carved into the surface inside the red circle. I'm guessing PSA and SGC would probably holder it in a POOR rather than FAIR.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Scott - I figured you'd say that. I could live with a 1, but to spend all that money to cross to an Auth - that would hurt me. A lot of collectors probably wouldn't care though.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Thanks Scott - I figured you'd say that. I could live with a 1, but to spend all that money to cross to an Auth - that would hurt me. A lot of collectors probably wouldn't care though.

+1

I think it depends on whether someone is buying the flip or the card. Lots of Auth cards look 50x better than PSA 1 or PSA 1.5 cards that are all beat up. To me, until you get to a VG level on this card, I focus on eye appeal.

jeff