FYI....T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 fr..350 nofr..460 confirmed lists

[Pat R]

I have mentioned this once before but it didn't receive any opinions either
way so I thought I would try it here.

All of the confirmed Brown Lenox subjects are also AB 460 subjects so I was
thinking it might be possible that some(or all) of the sheets used for the
AB 460's were also used for the Brown Lenox.

While the Brown Lenox is an extremely rare back (22 different subjects confirmed so far) it seems odd that none of the possible 34 non AB 460
subjects has been confirmed with a Brown Lenox. So could it be that not all Black Lenox subjects are possible with Brown Lenox and only AB 460 subjects are?

[tedzan]

Very interesting observation, Pat.

We do know that some of the sheets used to print the AB 460 backs were also used to print the UZIT backs.

But it remains to be seen if this is also true for the AB 460 cards and the brown LENOX cards, since (to date)
there are only 22 examples of the brown LENOX cards.

Furthermore, it is quite puzzling that 4 subjects (Lajoie, Overall, Pfeister, Wagner) of these 22 brown LENOX
cards have yet to be confirmed with black LENOX backs ? ? ? ?


Incidentally, there are 35 subjects that are AB 460 No-Prints (not 34).



TED Z
.

[Pat R]

I agree with you Ted, it's not much to gauge off with only 22 confirmed subjects but with 32% of the subjects being AB 460 no prints you would think at least a couple of the Confirmed Brown Lenox would be from this group if they are a possible front back combo.

[tedzan]

In any event, I think this connection is worth tracking....who knows where it will lead us.

Only The Monster knows !


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

One more try here to get some inputs from you regarding the 12 very, very tough American Beauty 460 cards.



AMERICAN BEAUTY 460........74 confirmed subjects

350/460 Series.....................28 subjects

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat) ........................ **
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right) ............... **
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat) .......................... **
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


460-only Series.....................46 subjects

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands in air)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (hands above head) ..... **
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait) ........................ **
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand on waist)

Hummell
Lake (with ball) ....................... **
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap) .............. **
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait) ...................... **
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne ..................................... **
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington) .............. **
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait) ........................ **
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap) .................. **


** NOTE
To date, there is only ONE example of each of these 12 cards as is evident in the POP report data (SGC + PSA).
If you have any of these 12 very scarce AB 460 cards could you please show and/or tell us of them..... Thanks.



TED Z
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
Still searching for these 4 cards to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)....TINKER (bat off shoulder)
.

[mrvster]

guys

[swanstars]

Just got this back from SGC !

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I have mentioned this once before but it didn't receive any opinions either
way so I thought I would try it here.

All of the confirmed Brown Lenox subjects are also AB 460 subjects so I was
thinking it might be possible that some(or all) of the sheets used for the
AB 460's were also used for the Brown Lenox.

While the Brown Lenox is an extremely rare back (22 different subjects confirmed so far) it seems odd that none of the possible 34 non AB 460
subjects has been confirmed with a Brown Lenox. So could it be that not all Black Lenox subjects are possible with Brown Lenox and only AB 460 subjects are?

There was a Conroy Lenox in a lot that sold in the recent Lelands auction.
I think this is the first confirmed Conroy Lenox and it looks like it's a Brown
Lenox which would be the 23rd confirmed Brown Lenox and all 23 would
also be American Beauty 460 subjects.

[tedzan]

Pat R

Nice observation....Conroy's LENOX back is certainly brown.


OK, for starters, the Exclusive 12 subjects in the 460-only series are Double-Printed (or Triple-Printed) with AB 460 backs. However, NONE of these 12 will ever
be found with brown LENOX. But, of course we know that these 12 guys are black LENOX No-Prints.


My theory regarding these LENOX "brownies" is simple, they are the result of a wrong ink press run of normally black LENOX cards. Eventually, Conroy (Pfeister
and Wagner) will be found wiith black LENOX backs.

If you're looking to draw some (or any) connection with other T206 back press runs, consider PIEDMONT 460/42 regarding the 460-only series "brownies".........

460-only Series......12 subjects confirmed with P460/42......6 of these subjects are also confirmed with brown LENOX (to date)

Bergen (catching)
Chase (Trophy)................brown LENOX
Latham...........................brown LENOX
Marquard (pitching)..........brown LENOX
Merkle (throwing).............brown LENOX
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)
Schlei (portrait)................brown LENOX
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)..........brown LENOX


Incidentally, I have to slightly modify your statement..... "While the Brown Lenox is an extremely rare back (22 different subjects confirmed so far) it seems odd
that none of the possible 34 non AB 460 subjects has been confirmed with a Brown Lenox.".
Actually, there are 35 AB 460 No-Prints. Ames (hands above head) has never been confirmed with an AB 460 back. Specific T206 printing patterns strongly sug-
gest that this Ames card will never be found with the AB 460 back. But, will possibly be found with a red HINDU back.


TED Z
.