T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY....updated

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Watch it....your "agenda" is blinding you to the facts.
T

And your ego is messing with your basic math skills then there are still 12 P150's in this thread even if Peter's is OC that you only counted 6 of. LOL

Rock solid Ted, I guess my agenda has caused you to miss count your own survey..but I bet you already know you missed them...I guess you were just testing me again. LOL


"you must snatch the Cobb OC card from my hands, 95% of rookies such as yourself fail...look it up I did a survey"

"the facts", theres a phrase you tend to say a bit much...but ok here are some facts there are 12 P150's in this thread alone, of which you only counted 6 so going off %'s you missed 50% of the cards pictured in your own survey! But that still didn't stop you from posting your % numbers and claiming them as fact.

That is exactly the whole point Ted. Tossing numbers around and or taking selective info and tweaking it to fit your needs is not objective and will never make something fact. I'm sure I'm alone on this but that's ok by me.

Having a handfull of cards posted here or talked about in collecting cirlces doesn't prove anything. Also your own, or someone elses collecting experiance with a certain card is also not a summary of a card and it's place in the hobby. To draw % from that and base that as fact or gospel is ripe for error.

As this very survey shows you said 95% off all Cobb's are OC I said how did you some to that summary? So unless exactly 95% of all Cobb's shown here are OC then this very post which was to prove your point actually proves mine. I never said the majority of Green Cobb's were not OC. In fact I said most are, even non P150 Cobb's tend to come OC.

You were the one who said 95% of all P150 Cobbs were OC, which by this very own thread they are not. That means your numbers by thier very nature were incorrect.

Cheers,

John

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

And your ego is messing with your basic math skills then there are still 12 P150's in this thread even if Peter's is OC. LOL

Hey John and Ted
This stuff is supposed to be fun. Please take it easy on each other. Next time we all meet you guys can leg wrestle or something.....See ya'll at Oaks....

[FrankWakefield]

Amen, Leon.

[FrankWakefield]

I've never owned a green Cobb. I have never noticed the off center tendencies with the card. This started out as an informative thread about that. And it devolved a bit. When I saw 95% I translated that to 'a bunch', 'most', 'generally', and 'about all'. It matters not whether it's 95% dead on, or merely eighty-something percent, or what. Most of the cards are skewed so they have a short top margin. I had not noticed that. Now I know it.

I've also learned a bit about some un-necessarily sharp remarks, we'd all been better off without those. Please.

[tedzan]

"ALMOST" or "SOMEWHAT" centered Cobb's are not counted.

Only the obviously CENTERED cards with the PIEDMONT 150 back are considered.

And so far, they are........

2 ...... John McDaniel

1 ...... Chuck W (CW)

1 ...... Joe (jcmtiger)

1 ...... Tsaiko

1 ...... Dave H (toppcat)

----
6

[tedzan]

I will quote Billy Joel


I DIDN'T START THIS FIRE ! !


TED Z

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by tedzan

"ALMOST" or "SOMEWHAT" centered Cobb's are not counted.

Only the obviously CENTERED cards with the PIEDMONT 150 back are considered.

And so far, they are........

2 ...... John McDaniel

1 ...... Chuck W (CW)

1 ...... Joe (jcmtiger)

1 ...... Tsaiko

1 ...... Dave H (toppcat)

----
6

LOL Ted I give up I can't make you count.....but for those of you who put faith in these lists created by folks and take them as gospel let this be a record for why you should take many things presented as fact with a grain of salt.

Frank, I agree I think most collectors of T206's have found Cobb's (Green) to be OC for the most part. Nobody has ever argued that, where this went wrong is when Ted chimed in on the past thread and posted a % number as fact of which I made the mistake of asking how he came to such a number...and then made the bigger mistake of not agreeing with him.

Oh and forget the fact he claimed one should by a Hindu Green Cobb if one would want a centered Green Cobb, that in itself was insinuating that he has seen Hindu backed Green Cobb's centered, but when corrected it was an elaborate test by Ted to see if we were awake.

Cheers,

John

[tedzan]

Has anyone on this forum been a stronger advocate that American Litho. NEVER printed any T206 (and T205) Cobb's with a HINDU back than me ? ? ? ?

Do I have to dig up all my threads these past two years to prove this ?

How quickly some forget !


TED Z

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

That is exactly the whole point Ted. Tossing numbers around and or taking selective info and tweaking it to fit your needs is not objective and will never make something fact. I'm sure I'm alone on this but that's ok by me.

No, you're not alone on this.

[Ease]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

"you must snatch the Cobb OC card from my hands, 95% of rookies such as yourself fail...look it up I did a survey"

LOL! Classic.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by peterb69

Ted, thanks for this information. I also have an off centered green cobb piedmont 150 card. I think your sampling
proves that the majority are off centered.

Question I have is why? Did they run a few sheets of just Cobb cards as he was a well known player then? Or did
the position of Cobb on the sheet was on the top row? If so, then everyone on the top row should also be not centered.

Curious as to the why.

Thanks for your input. It's anyone's guess why this particular green Cobb is predominately found off-center (and towards the top border).
Unfortunately, to date, no uncut sheets of T206's have been found.

Regards,

TED Z

[danmckee]

I own 4 green Cobbs, I have one on ebay which I think you people addressed here already.

To say Ted's survey has proved anything is ridiculous. You people have no clue how many huge collections of raw vintage cards are in old timers collections. I visited a gentleman who has 3 T206 sets less the biggies, a T205 set and a T207 set. He doesn't even collect cards, he is a memorabilia giant. There are 3 green's right there that you have no clue are centered or not.

If there are 300 or 500 green Cobbs out in the hobby, and Ted has survey'd 30, is that a good testing environment? Can you take the 30 and say the results cover the remaining hundreds that you didn't see? I say no. Is it possible? Of course Ted's survey may cover the majority but it is also very possible that it doesn't. If Ted survey'd half of them or 3/4s then ok, that is proof. But these little wannabe surveys here on this board are not proving anything with the population of any fairly common cards in the hobby.

Has Ted done a good job? Of course he has, he loves it and is passionate about it. But does his work prove anything? Be realistic folks.

It is neat to see the results Ted comes up with during these mini surveys but as far as proof positive, nah.

[FrankWakefield]

I would imagine, Dan, Wonka, Rob D, and Jim (where ever you are), that when you see my name beside this thread on the front page, you can predict what I've posted. That's what I did when I saw Rob and then Dan.

Ted didn't base his opinion on two and a half dozen cards seen here. He based it on 30 plus years of attentive collecting, which is longer than many here have been out of diapers. What you've done, Dan, is characterize what Ted said in a way so you can take a stab at it. Post #21 is Ted's, and it explains his experience in handling thousands of T206s. I'd think he's sold more T206's than half of the folks on this board have ever seen. Ted's thread does prove something, that most of those green Cobbs with a Piedmont 150 back are off center.

When you guys jump the old timers, you sometimes run them away for a while, or for good. The jumping adds nothing to the board. The departure of the guys that really know about cards and share that knowledge, that definitely subtracts from it. When a turd lands in a cesspool, it obviously isn't alone.

I don't completely agree with part of Ted's initial post, where he says if centering is important then avoid Piedmont 150 green Cobbs... I'd love to have a worn, off center green Cobb.

So PEACE, guys.

[danmckee]

Actually Frank, I gave Ted a very nice compliment that you have seemed to miss. That he does a good job and is passionate about his work.

I think you are mistaken that Ted has handled and sold thousands of T206's. Hundreds maybe but the Ted I remember at the Willow Grove shows and onward was a late 1940s guru. He knew the Bowman, Bond Bread, Bowman PCL issues inside and out. We would all crawl to him for late 40s expertise.

Ted always had a few T206s at the shows but usually just a junk box of them which he likes to sell at $10 to $20 each. I have picked through that box for many years, it is like treasure hunting.

I also do not appreciate you telling me my thinking for my post, to stab at him. You are wrong once again sir. I was merely trying to point out that a test group of a small amount of anything is not necessarily a good indication of the entire group.

If my post chases anyone away, then shame on them.

If you will notice, I am not on here any more but maybe you feel I have nothing to bring to the board.

I have been chased away by the lack of collecting the way I know it from the 1970s and 80s and the new theme the hobby has taken.

So, I will run away again, enjoy your board full of self proclaimed experts.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by danmckee

If there are 300 or 500 green Cobbs out in the hobby, and Ted has survey'd 30, is that a good testing environment? Can you take the 30 and say the results cover the remaining hundreds that you didn't see? I say no.

I guess it depends on the definition of good testing environment. Statistics are used all the time using small sample sizes to extrapolate to the actual population (polling estimates, Nielsen ratings, etc.). Statistically, given a universe of 500 and a sample size of 30 with a percentage of 87, you can be reasonably confident (95%) that the margin of error is +/- 12%. In other words, it is 95% probable that the actual percentage in the population is between 75% and 99%.

Plug in any numbers you want in the "Find Confidence Interval" calculator here: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

[wonkaticket]

Erick,

Mathematically speaking...math sort of goes out the window when in this very thread 12 examples are posted and only 6 are counted...I'm no Stephen Hawking but I would guess that tweaks the results a bit....

John

[Tsaiko]

Here's another P150> The lipstick on the forehead variation - j/k.

Looking at the back scans of the two that are graded (that are in the box), it at least appears that one has a tall top border, but I will get to those, eventually, and post scans.

[tedzan]

Thanks for the compliment "ole buddy". But, your memory of Willow Grove (and Ft Washington) days is either failing or very "selective".

In the 1980's I mainly collected Tobacco cards. I didn't start selling them till the mid-1990's. Barry Sloate will attest to this, as I sold him
my 521 card (includes Magie) T206 set. This was the 1st set I put together. Also, I sold him my complete T205 and T207 sets.

At that same time at Ft Washington, I sold Mike Wheat my E90-1 set (120 cards complete with an Ex Joe Jackson).

I broke up one of two 1933 Goudey sets (239 cards) that I put together. Bill McAvoy bought the Babe Ruth's. The 2nd set I sold to Alan Rosen.
Mr Mint also bought my 1934 Goudey set and my 2nd 1941 Play Ball set.

In 2001, I started on my 2nd T206 set and completed this 520-card set by 2004. I broke up this T206 set in 2005 and started an all-PIEDMONT set.
Dave Czuba bought about 1/2 the cards from my 2nd set.

I completed a 518-card all PIEDMONT T206 set in 2006. Then, I started an all SOVEREIGN T206 set, which I completed when I acquired the 408th
card (red Cobb with a SOVEREIGN 460 back).

Am I making you "dizzy" Dan ?
There's more....I started and near completed an all SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set of 467 cards. Wagner and Plank were the only cards missing
from this one.

Dan....let's do the math together .... 521 + 520 + 518 + 408 + 467 = 2434 T206 cards.
And, that does not include all my duplicates over the years.

Sorry to correct you guy, but this statement of yours is sheer horse-crap fiction .... please try to get the facts straight........
" I think you are mistaken that Ted has handled and sold thousands of T206's. Hundreds maybe "

Dan .... I really find it very disappointing that you have become part of this "discredit Ted" campaign that has been instigated by Jim Rivera.


Oh....and, I forgot to mention the large group of George C. Miller cards you bought from me in 1996....that was quite a hoot.

I have some fine memories of you and your Dad going back to the Willow Grove days. Tis a shame that its all come down to this vendetta that you
guys are conjuring up.


TED Z

[Mikehealer]

I hate to get off topic here, but Joe that is one gorgeous Cobb.

[wonkaticket]

Frank I find it ironic that you would lead off your post with commentary on people making wrong assumptions.

I also based my questioning of Ted’s arbitrary number of 95% based on my collecting experience does my collecting experience have any less merit?

I have been collecting T206’s since I was about 12 or so going a little over 24+ years now.

I too have had my fair share of these cards experienced large finds and large buys. I have never felt the need to hang my trophy list here in order to chase folks away from having an opinion.

Regardless of having thousands or just a dozen there is no reason somebody can’t present a valid argument or theory, or question those of a more experienced collector. That very reasoning is assumptive in nature which seems to bother you. But as with most folks it only bothers them when it’s being done to them not the other way around.

This whole I’ve done this and you haven’t is childish and counterproductive.



Sadly Ted plays this card with folks who have serious knowledge or the very folks Ted gets his knowledge from in many cases. What Ted fails to mention in a lot of these posts is where this info he posts comes from. It comes from some of the very community and members that he now seems to have issue with.

This thread/topic didn’t devolve due anyone other than Ted, and this topic was not started to answer any hobby question or gain insight.



It was started to prove Ted right in some twisted way from the questioning he got via me on the other post.

Here are the facts Ted made a snap comment that all Piedmont 150 green Cobb’s are OC of which he can’t prove definitively. When I asked where did you come up with that number, and unless you’ve seen them all how can you issue such a statement. Instead of simply stating you know what Wonka you have a point I would say based on my experience I would think a large number of them are OC and saying a definitive 95% are OC is a bit snap in judgment.

But Ted doesn’t want to do that if you look back at the thread where this started I made a post saying Cobb green is a tough card to find centered. It was Ted that had to come along with the one up if you will. In fact a one up that was riddled with wrong information. Of which mistake number one (Cobb Green Hindu) was chalked up to a test for us little folks and the other is now trying to be proved via a 30+ card survey with cards within the survey not even being counted. LOL

The whole thing is laughable. This is not the first time folks this has happened with Ted for the readers who think I’m just picking on poor Ted or have been told there is some offline conspiracy against him.

He did this with an AUTH Plank where he busted onto this board stating that the card was no good due to having a wrong factory, which he was wrong about.

He did this with his Polar Bear list in which he left off Demmitt & O’Hara but when he was corrected by Barry Sloate, his response was…you guessed it he was testing us again.



The examples go on and on…with Ted.

This whole Cobb topic I have had a range of emotion on. I went from confusion “why would Ted say that”. Too frustration “why is he missing or dodging my simple point”.

Finally I just feel sad for Ted almost embarrassed I disagree with him and call him out as he would to me or anyone else and it’s chalked up to an elaborate conspiracy against him. Against him how? What motive would we have….dethrone him as the resident self proclaimed T206 expert on Net 54…no offense to anybody or me but that’s like being the tallest midget.



I’m sure he would like to paint me as a bad guy but the sad thing is Ted knows me. We’ve shared hours of phone calls, lunches, road trips heck I even hung around to help him pack up after one of the card shows in PA.

For Ted…..

Ted I’m sure you’re reading this. I find it odd you are so resolute in your quest to be right on every tid bit you post on here that you would act like you do towards the very folks who have been more than fair to you. There is no need to lie to us, don’t think you have want to tell everyone you’ve been honest go ahead at least perhaps the folks who don’t know any better will buy it.

But deep down inside you know you have been dishonest to me & others even very recently in a very elaborate and wrong way. BTW did Jim Rivera make you lie to several folks on here at length and make up a ridiculous story recently in private to both Dan and I? You know exactly what I’m talking about but I'm not going to air that here.



Ted there is no need to discredit you with many folks on here you’ve done that yourself already with your past and recent actions, and only someone with something to hide would be so paranoid as to turn a disagreement on a topic into a covert campaign against them.

Cheers,

John

[FrankWakefield]

'childish'... childish would be those images, and the use of them. I'm done.

[wonkaticket]

Frank really….shame you’ve been a real rock in this thread too. Well you know kids today what are ya gonna do?

Frank Wakefield, March 15 (post #9):

I've not seen 100% of the green Cobb cards. No one has. Not even someone who worked at American Litho, I'd think.

But I have seen a few. And I've had my eyes open and I've been paying some attention to certain old ball cards. It sure seems to me that an unusually high number of green Cobbs have that centering shift. Bunches of them... And even if I've not seen 100% of them, it's still the truth.

Frank Wakefield, today (post #54):

I've never owned a green Cobb. I have never noticed the off center tendencies with the card. This started out as an informative thread about that.

And it devolved a bit. When I saw 95% I translated that to 'a bunch', 'most', 'generally', and 'about all'. It matters not whether it's 95% dead on, or merely eighty-something percent, or what. Most of the cards are skewed so they have a short top margin. I had not noticed that. Now I know it.

So, to recap:

About a week ago it sure seemed to you Frank and you noticed "that an unusually high number of green Cobb’s have that centering shift." But today, you have never noticed the off center tendencies with the card until Ted posted this informative thread.

Credit goes to another board member for sending me this jewel…see Ted it's not that hard to be honest and give credit.

[danmckee]

Yea Ted I must agree, now that I think about it, handling thousands of T206s is no real feat. I just looked around the house and with my set and the left overs of 3 large buys, I think I have over 2000 here now. So yes, I would agree with Frank that you have easily handled thousands.

I don't remember you being known for T cards but that may be on me as you say. You may want to re-read my post, I am not discrediting you, I just don't think a test group of 1% of any item gives proof positive results of the majority of a large group. Not just cards, anything, I was trying to general.

Am I one of the sheep here that believes everything you state? No, but I think you do a good job and try hard. I just sometimes think you go to extremes to make your theories look more correct but no harm.

I will look forward to seeing you at the Oaks, stop by and say hello or I will stop over if you like.

And stop bringing up the George C Millers, I think they were all in poor condition and you charged me mint prices .

Take care Ted
dan

[Leon]

Ok but if Ted said only 94% were off center would that have calmed the waters?

Seriously, it does seem the great majority of those Cobbs mentioned are OC top to bottom. Anyone in their right mind would agree with that and has always noticed it, I have and I don't even collect the darned things. As far as what percentage, is it that big of a deal, really?

[barrysloate]

As Leon said, if Ted simply stated the majority of green Cobbs are off-center, nobody would have disputed it. But since he cited a specific percentage, he set himself up to be challenged. Does the exact percentage make any difference? Why don't we agree most of them are o/c and move on.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Does the exact percentage make any difference? Why don't we agree most of them are o/c and move on.

Barry I believe we all agreed prior to things coming completely off the rails that a majority of Green Cobb's are off center. Wonka's issue was simply the declarative statement that Ted made stating 95%. Had Ted backed off the certainty of that number in his next post that thread wouldn't have deteriorated and this one would never have been needed.

[barrysloate]

Exactly Tim. The number was too specific and was unnecessary for the argument. There's no doubt that a great many of them are off center.

[wonkaticket]

My original comment from the Demmit, O’Hara and Cobb thread.

Wonka:

“All 3 are tough in there own way..finding a centered Green Cobb is a lot tougher than one would think.”

Ted Z:

Green Cobb's centering is a function of it's T-back Approximately 95 % of the Green Cobb cards that have the PIEDMONT 150 back are off-center as mine is (shown here). If centering
of this T206 Cobb is important to you, then look for a PIEDMONT 350, or SOVEREIGN 150, or SWEET CAPORAL 150/350, or OLD MILL,or Brown HINDU..........Note..SOVEREIGN 350 does not exist.

Wonka:

Ted,

In regards to Green Cobb not so sure on the 95% number perhaps you meant for the most part or in your experience unless you have had 100% of all P150 Cobb’s...

As for Brown Hindu unless you found something we all should know about including yourself I wouldn't know if they are centered or not as I’m pretty sure they don’t exist. I even think you agree…

Ted Z:

Hey Wonka…..
YOU PASSED THE TEST !

I threw that "Brown HINDU" Cobb out there to see how long it would take before someone caught me on this?

I took 2 hrs and 19 mins.....very slow response.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Barry nobody has ever doubted that Green Cobb's are OC in fact I will say that even other brand backs from the 150 are found more towards the top etc. not just P150.

But we start tossing numbers around on here as fact and then these start showing up in our daily collecting lives. Next time one of you goes to buy a centered Cobb or sees one on ebay the seller will be asking an even higher premium as 95% of all of them are OC.

Tim is exactly correct with my issue here and it was my only issue, that is until Ted started making it more personal and claming there was a covert attempt by fellow members to destroy him...

John

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I just don't think a test group of 1% of any item gives proof positive results of the majority of a large group.

So Dan, since Ted has surveyed 30 Green Cobbs, and you say his test group is exactly 1%, are you saying you know there exist exactly 3000 Green Cobbs? Or did you perhaps mean it was a "small" test group?

<---- smiley

[danmckee]

Yes a small test group, that was just an example. I am not to worried about the percentage whether it be 1% or 95%.

You caught my drift

Ted's statement of the majority could be correct but with such a small testing group, it could also be incorrect. So I completely disagree with Leon and Barry on this. That is the 2nd time in years I disagreed with Barry and the 1st time I disagreed with Leon.

So I have disagreed with Barry and Leon 16% of the 84% of the 5% of the time.

[barrysloate]

Dan, only two times?

What was the first time, I forgot?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Yea Ted I must agree, now that I think about it, handling thousands of T206s is no real feat. I just looked around the house and with my set and the left overs of 3 large buys, I think I have over 2000 here now. So yes, I would agree with Frank that you have easily handled thousands.

I don't remember you being known for T cards but that may be on me as you say. You may want to re-read my post, I am not discrediting you, I just don't think a test group of 1% of any item gives proof positive results of the majority of a large group. Not just cards, anything, I was trying to general.

Am I one of the sheep here that believes everything you state? No, but I think you do a good job and try hard. I just sometimes think you go to extremes to make your theories look more correct but no harm.

I will look forward to seeing you at the Oaks, stop by and say hello or I will stop over if you like.

And stop bringing up the George C Millers, I think they were all in poor condition and you charged me mint prices .

Take care Ted
dan

I appreciate your comments in this post. And, I hope to see you at the Oaks show next month.

Regarding the deal we had back in the 1990's with the George C. Miller cards, why wouldn't I charge you "mint prices"....after all, you brought with you Mr. Mint


Regards,

TED Z

[cfc1909]

I have refrained from posting but here ya go

First let me say there is no discredit campaign. No one will find any evidence of this anywhere. Also Ted and I, along with a few other collectors have made great progress on the T206 set over the past several years that he takes full credit for. The credit does not bother me, it is the inaccuracies.

Unfortunately several things have happened during the last year that has made it necessary for me to distance myself from Ted. I have kept these situations private between Ted and myself but he continues to believe that I am attempting to discredit him and he posts these beliefs publicly on the board. So after posting my name in this thread with allegations of me conspiring against him I feel forced to have to at least acknowledge the situation though it is not what I wanted to happen.


Anyone that knows me knows that I am a positive person. They also know that T206 tough backs and the research of the set are what I enjoy. Most important to me are the facts and keeping the information as accurate as possible for the benefit of all collectors. I don’t have any desire to be considered a T206 expert or a Net54 superstar. Unfortunately the same can’t be said for Ted as he has knowingly put out misinformation about the T206 set and when this was brought to his attention rather than correct his mistake he went to great lengths to maintain his position including crossing ethical lines and I will not be associated with this behavior. These actions are not only unnecessary but detrimental to the progress we have made over the last several years.


It is not my goal to come onto the board and air out all of the details of this and other situations that happened between Ted and myself or to try and discredit him in any way. I do have more than enough information to back up the things that I say and hopefully will not be pushed any further and this can all just go away without additional posts, hard feelings, or negativity.


Lastly Ted believes that I am the cause for separate disagreements he is having with several long time hobby friends however it is Ted and his actions that are the common link in all of these situations not me.


I’d like to get back to discussing cards and focusing on the positive in the hobby.

[wonkaticket]

Ted,

You never cease to amaze or shall I say underwhelm me.

Let’s address these comments to you from private.

"I use to post occassionaly on Net54 several years ago when there was meaningful content in T206 threads. In the past year or so, there is less content and more contention."

Very little info from members is posted in regards to T206 I would say there is quite a bit.

Speaking for myself I have contributed the following off the top of my head.

• Worked with 2 other collectors (Jim R & Dan M) and was instrumental in debunking and proving T206mususem and its owner were involved in producing fake cards, saving auction houses, collectors and TPG’s ten's of thousands of dollars. Also correcting several cards that were added wrongly due to being fake.

• Worked to point out the Cycle 350 Nodgrass fake auction saving collectors thousands and correcting another card in the hobby that was bad.

• Recently pointed out the cleaned Plank in the Paragon auction.

• Posted a detailed post on Brown Old Mill cards.

• Shared countless images, including 2 BL460’s, Brown Old Mill, Complete back set, other tough backs, complete Murphy back run, Demmit & O’Hara cards and countless other pickups.

• Helped you update your Carolina Bright thread by posting and showing an unknown example.

There’s plenty more Ted but you seem to want to paint me and others as armatures and having no real contribution to this forum other than being mean to you.

Which leads me to your contributions while we are discussing what folks bring.

Ted you seem to love to post these confirmed lists, many times you post these confirmed list with little to mention of what their origins are.

Most if not all of your lists came from other members and their research of which you post many times as your own. That’s annoying and a little arrogant but what kills me is many times you are adding information that is questionable at best.

When asked by folks of the community we are told you have been told offline by unknown collectors. Many of us hold issue with that as mistakes can be made this way via bad memories or just flat out right fabrications to you.

That makes some of these surveys about as firm as McLovin's ID.



Folks some time want to tell fishing stories to get attention. This should be no new news to you It’s clear you crave the attention that is why so many of these threads get bumped with little to no new info added.

But when unknown examples of obscure cards or normal cards are being added to a list which many members he will use as a collecting guideline to learn and begin projects we owe it to them to make sure that information is ironclad. Ted your current system is far from that and when it’s pointed out to you either constructively or directly it’s brushed off as us nobody’s questioning the great Ted Z.

A perfect example for the readers out there,this very thread has nothing to do with hobby advancement it’s all about Ted trying to prove a number he can’t prove that you shouldn’t have been tossing around in the first place. Now he’s putting up a classic smoke screen drawing attention away making it out that I and several others are picking on him.

Facts are Ted is lying in this very thread and twisting information or ignoring info given to prove his point not prove a hobby point only Ted’s point.

Ted I’m not alone several folks have told me they feel the same way not that really matters. I feel this way regardless of others and I'm calling you out they can chime in if they feel the need to support or say thier peace.

One of our board members took it upon himself (Not Jim, Dan, Me or anyone else you may think before you start blowing off) to create a fake email and back story.



He sent you the below email today. Also is your reply.

Readers digest;

Ted got a fake email sent from one of our fellow members today. (Paraphrased)

Dear Mr. Blank.,

I read the Net54 but never write anything there. Too many a-holes who wouldn't know a T206 from a teacup. I've been collecting sonce before probably even you bought your first card. Wanted to let you know I have five green Cobbs --- 3 Pied 150s and 2 Sweet Caps 350. All three of the Pieds are offcenter --- two of them left to right and the other right to left. The Seet Caps are pretty decent. Tell those guys to put that in their pipes and smoke it.

Don't have a scanner and never have had a card graded -- wouldn't do it if it was free. sorry can't send you pictures.

Sincerely yours,

Jack "Trapper" McGowan

The purpose of said email was to show how easy it is for Ted to take anybody’s word on a card and add it to said lists as fact. Even SCD wants an image before cards are added to checklists. But not Ted, not only did the email say the Cobb’s were OC but it said they were OC left to right & right to left the person claimed to have 3 of them. Actually doing a survey or exploratory thread on why Cobb’s (green) are OC having these two OC examples may have added valuable info to this thread. As the entire discussion revolves around top to bottom however with no further follow up they were added here.


However as bad as that is the below was what shocked us even more…see Ted's summary or paraphrase of the email see...

1 .... "I've been collecting T206's since the early 1970's. I have 5 green Cobb's....three are P 150's and two are SC 350's. All three P 150 cards are off-center.
The two SC cards are centered. I would have posted this info, but I do not care to deal with the caustic nature of one (or two) "assi-9" characters that have
been posting on this green Cobb thread."

Ted took select sections of said email missed all important info regarding to the actual survey and thread he started. He then decided to elaborate on this email by making his own version (lying) of this fictional persons email to post here implicating me personally and one other person.

The email had none of these direct comments and or statements see above the paraphrase.

Well just another example of Ted making stuff up, perhaps he was just testing us.





edited personal email out

[cfc1909]

Wonka
where did you get that picture of McKee with his shirt off?

[wonkaticket]

On my iPhone at the Chantilly show it was taken at his table.

[E93]

Is that a Cobb tattoo from the T206 portrait?

[iwantitiwinit]

This is getting tiresome. This is supposed to be about baseball right? Baseball cards? We're taking about baseball cards here? Baseball cards? Are we talking about baseball cards? Baseball cards?

[caramelcard]

iwantitiwinit,

They're talking about baseball cards, but also their relationships and lying and fake emails and other stuff.

Rob

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

iwantitiwinit,

They're talking about baseball cards, but also their relationships and lying and fake emails and other stuff.

Rob

Rob, is correct...and this board is filled with threads that are boring to me or off topic to a degree, yet I have the choice to just not read them or stay out of them.

Cheers,

John

[iwantitiwinit]

I clearly understand that. Seems to me that things are being taken a little too seriously. I guess I can choose not to read this thread if it bothers me. I've been collecting T206's for about 2 years and have approx 40% of the set in psa/sgc 4.5ish condition (not that it matters) and while I'm actively searching for cards everyday I guess I am just not that into it to the point where all this he said/he said stuff is that interesting.

[wonkaticket]

iwantitiwinit,

Sounds like you a very nice collection T206's are great. You have to really look past the he said she said stuff it may appear on the surface as that but this goes deeper.

This is about treating other collectors on their thoughts and views with a level of courtesy regardless if said person has been collecting 2 years or 30+ years we all can have an input.

More importantly any info presented on here should be solid and not tweaked to make one collector look smarter than others or prove just one collectors statement. This is about info being correct so that new collectors can follow and have faith in collecting or starting projects.

It's a shame if info presnted here is incorrect and then tweaked as fact and taken as gospel it could really send folks off on a wild goose chase.

That's the bigger picture here.

Yes there's a bit of a pissing match and ego thing going on here I'd be the first to admit it.

But that doesn't take away from the fair points made by all.

Cheers,

John

[Leon]

Hey John
The rules clearly state-

Things you may not post:
Personal information including but not limited to: Phone numbers, addresses, email addresses, etc… should not be posted, unless given permission by the person whose information you are posting. Personal emails and/or correspondence should not be posted on the board, except with approval from the moderator and only under extraordinary circumstances.

I edited out the personal emails from your post. Please let me know if you have any questions. I am not taking sides but will say this stuff needs to cease soon, please. thanks much

[wonkaticket]

Fair enough Leon. I take it the phone call with Ted was long…

Leon for the record I'm sure by accident you also edited half of my statements above that had nothing to with the email. As well as my images…I will correct if ok?

Just to be clear lying to board members. Posting fraudulent comments and or insinuating things about other members without having the courage to say ones name. Creating elaborate offline conspiracies that don’t exist mentioning and or implicating other board members in said conspiracies to other forum members with no proof of such conspiracy. Insulting fellow members for their inputs or collecting history, ragging on fellow members with comments like moron, idiots, graded card fools etc. offline while seeking thier approval and support online. Making up bogus information and passing it off as fact under the guise of an expert, and or plagiarism of other folks information are all acceptable practices. Fair enough.

I have mended my post above to be more in lines with the rules.

I also see from Ted's post (which is not edited) above it is ok to paraphrase emails am I correct here Leon.

I will paraphrase, that should be ok since you're not taking sides.

Cheers,

John

[CMIZ5290]

Holy cow guys! I declare a 15 round split decision!

[Leon]

It was absolutely ONLY my intention to edit out emails. You can certainly post anything else and I apologize for wiping some of the post out. I now realize it was interspersed with your rebuttals. Images are fine too...I laugh at most of them, even the ones about me.

edited to say that paraphrasing is mostly ok...it's just those cut and pasted emails that are not permitted. That being said wouldn't it be good enough left alone? I am not saying not to comment anymore because I really believe folks should get to say what they want to, per the rules, when their name is in their post or sig line, but we all get it I think.

I see you put much of it back....but it's not emails so is fine by me, as far as "rules" go.

[Ease]

Time for a beer?

[wonkaticket]

Classic love it!!

[teetwoohsix]

Wow.....this thread has been very interesting, to say the least

I'm still trying to figure out why "Trapper" looks familiar to me

[DerekMichael]

Hello. I am new here and was very, very excited to talk to you guys about T206 cards, which I am passionate about. I was saddened and disgusted when I saw the things you posted about Ted. While no one on Earth can possibly know every single detail as fact, you are so, so out of line.

I have spoken with Ted many times and he is a wonderful man with a plethora of great knowledge. I do not know the details of this conflict Jim posted about, nor do I wish to know because it is none of my business. All I know is you have just made yourself look silly. You are not funny, you are just mean.

Cheers,

Derek