NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2015, 05:41 AM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default T227 Series of Champions Enigma

Hey All!

I am working on a lifetime project to complete this set. The cards were issued with Honest Long Cut and Miners Extra, from what I read they were included in scrap or chewing tobacco pouches and that is why they are hard to find in good condition. Looks like they were issued in 1912.

the back of the cards show a series of 25 in the set however only 24 have been identified (checklist below). I saw on the non sports side there have been some ATC ledgers showing date of issue and checklists of some other non sports T card sets.

Has anyone seen the same for this set?

Any guesses as to whom the 25th card is or was supposed to be?

thanks for any assistance!

Cliff

1912 Honest Long Cut & Miners Extra Tobacco (T227) - Series of Champions (24)

CARD NO. CARD NAME SPORT
1 BRUCE BROWN AUTO RACING
2 RALPH MULFORD AUTO RACING
3 C.P. RODGERS (CALBRAITH) AVIATION
4 HOME RUN BAKER BASEBALL
5 CHIEF BENDER BASEBALL
6 TY COBB BASEBALL
7 RICHARD MARQUARD BASEBALL
8 ALFRED DE ORO BILLIARDS
9 WILLIE HOPPE BILLIARDS
10 ABE ATELL BOXING
11 JOHNNY COULON BOXING
12 JACK JOHNSON BOXING
13 FRANK KLAUS BOXING
14 AD. WOLGAST BOXING
15 HAROLD HILTON GOLF
16 JACK MCDERMOTT GOLF
17 ESS H. KAY HORSE RACING
18 UHLAN HORSE RACING
19 DIXIE V BOATING
20 BUDD GOODWIN SWIMMING
21 W.J. KRAMER TRACK & FIELD
22 MATT MCGRATH TRACK & FIELD
23 MELVIN SHEPPARD TRACK & FIELD
24 C. ZBYSZKO WRESTLING
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2015, 08:11 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Are you sure there are 25 cards? It's quite possible only 24 were made: 8x3 or 4x6 printing sheets would make sense, but then so would 5x5.
I see the writing says "25 Designs", but this was also the timeframe where some cards were omitted from being released/printed in order to get more sales for those chasing a complete set or attempting to redeem for a prize (box of chocolates/ice skates).
PSA has only graded 24 different cards, and you would think if anyone had the other, they would get it cataloged or added to the PSA registry.

http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr...te.aspx?c=6066

PSA, FWIW, only counts this set as having 24 cards. 100% completion for 24 required items.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2015, 09:27 PM
buchner buchner is offline
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 76
Default T227

Charles Bray allowed me to photocopy his checklist back in the day and he had the same 24 on his checklist, but in the margin is written the name - Whelan (trotter). It looks more like my notation and not his. I don't have the card, and I can't remember where I came up with name. Hope this helps a little. John
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-15-2015, 09:03 AM
darwinbulldog's Avatar
darwinbulldog darwinbulldog is offline
Glenn
Glen.n Sch.ey-d
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,231
Default

Joe Jackson?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-15-2015, 12:10 PM
caramelcard's Avatar
caramelcard caramelcard is offline
Robert A
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 997
Default

Hey Cliff,

There are other early non sports sets that advertise more cards than actually exist. E26 Menagerie comes to mind with Prairie Dog and Wild Boar on the back of the card, but not actually printed.

Although it's interesting what John posted above. If there is a 25th card out there, I'm sure it would be an obscure subject.

Good luck with your set.

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-15-2015, 01:52 PM
mybuddyinc's Avatar
mybuddyinc mybuddyinc is offline
S Gross
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 2,052
Default

I think they are one of the most beautiful set made. Great, unique images, and detailed write-ups on back. Coulon (boxer, Bantamweight champ 1908-14, 5'0", ~110 lbs.) is my favorite, is stunning in it's simplicity. The wild-smiling Mulford (last to win the off track races, Savannah, and first to win on track, Indy), is also a fav.

No expert, by far, but agree it's a 24 card set. Bruce Brown (auto) seems to be the hardest to find.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-17-2015, 01:30 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Anyone got any of the blank back handcuts?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2015, 06:29 PM
dgyshcc dgyshcc is offline
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Default t227

Just discovered a near full set of t227 (23 of 24). Low grade but pretty neat. Multiples of some cards.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-02-2015, 10:09 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgyshcc View Post
Just discovered a near full set of t227 (23 of 24). Low grade but pretty neat. Multiples of some cards.
That doesn't happen often!! Does it have a Cobby?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pt227cobb.jpg (77.0 KB, 1179 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-02-2015, 11:13 AM
Eggoman's Avatar
Eggoman Eggoman is offline
Greg Z@y@tz
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lockport
Posts: 951
Default

Although I do not have any T227s. Here's a couple of pictures of the package that they likely came in.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg T227 014.jpg (64.2 KB, 1156 views)
File Type: jpg T227 015.jpg (64.4 KB, 1158 views)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-02-2015, 06:12 PM
dgyshcc dgyshcc is offline
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Default

I does. I pulled the Baseball players out of the box my grandfather gave me years ago and didn't know about the other sports.
I recently dug through the rest of the cards and discovered the non baseball cards that went with them!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-12-2015, 07:48 AM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default Scan Request - T227 Bruce Brown & C.P. Rodgers

Hey Fellas!

Does anyone have a scan of the front of the following two cards that they could share? Hard to look for them if I don't know that they look like!!!

thanks for any help!

Looking for scans/photos of two cards from the set:

BRUCE BROWN

and

C.P. RODGERS

thanks!

Cliff
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-12-2015, 11:45 AM
mybuddyinc's Avatar
mybuddyinc mybuddyinc is offline
S Gross
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 2,052
Default

xx

Last edited by mybuddyinc; 09-16-2015 at 02:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-12-2015, 04:19 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

From Issue #10 of Old Cardboard Magazine:






Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2015, 04:37 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

Regarding the missing 25th card.....

The four baseball players in the set are Chief Bender, Rube Marquard, Frank Baker and Ty Cobb.

In 1911, Bender and Marquard let their respective leagues in win %. Cobb led the AL in batting average. Baker led the AL in homeruns. The NL homerun champion was Frank Schulte of the Cubs (not exactly a household name).

Here's where it gets interesting.

The NL batting champion in 1911 was none other than Honus Wagner. Could the missing 25th T227 card have been meant for him? It boggles the mind!!!!!


Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-12-2015, 08:21 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default Thank you - Thank you!

Thanks for posting the photos! really appreciate it!
I could not find photos anywhere!

that would be awesome if the 25th card was destined to be a WAGNER!

good stuff!

thanks again for your help!

Cliff
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-12-2015, 08:23 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default Photos and 25th card speculation

Thanks for posting the photos! really appreciate it!
I could not find photos anywhere!

that would be awesome if the 25th card was destined to be a WAGNER!

good stuff!

thanks again for your help!

Cliff
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-19-2016, 09:21 AM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

I just found this thread as I was searching about the Ralph Mulford on Google. Curious to find out how your project is coming along.

-Kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marslife View Post
Hey All!

I am working on a lifetime project to complete this set. The cards were issued with Honest Long Cut and Miners Extra, from what I read they were included in scrap or chewing tobacco pouches and that is why they are hard to find in good condition. Looks like they were issued in 1912.

the back of the cards show a series of 25 in the set however only 24 have been identified (checklist below). I saw on the non sports side there have been some ATC ledgers showing date of issue and checklists of some other non sports T card sets.

Has anyone seen the same for this set?

Any guesses as to whom the 25th card is or was supposed to be?

thanks for any assistance!

Cliff

1912 Honest Long Cut & Miners Extra Tobacco (T227) - Series of Champions (24)

CARD NO. CARD NAME SPORT
1 BRUCE BROWN AUTO RACING
2 RALPH MULFORD AUTO RACING
3 C.P. RODGERS (CALBRAITH) AVIATION
4 HOME RUN BAKER BASEBALL
5 CHIEF BENDER BASEBALL
6 TY COBB BASEBALL
7 RICHARD MARQUARD BASEBALL
8 ALFRED DE ORO BILLIARDS
9 WILLIE HOPPE BILLIARDS
10 ABE ATELL BOXING
11 JOHNNY COULON BOXING
12 JACK JOHNSON BOXING
13 FRANK KLAUS BOXING
14 AD. WOLGAST BOXING
15 HAROLD HILTON GOLF
16 JACK MCDERMOTT GOLF
17 ESS H. KAY HORSE RACING
18 UHLAN HORSE RACING
19 DIXIE V BOATING
20 BUDD GOODWIN SWIMMING
21 W.J. KRAMER TRACK & FIELD
22 MATT MCGRATH TRACK & FIELD
23 MELVIN SHEPPARD TRACK & FIELD
24 C. ZBYSZKO WRESTLING
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-19-2016, 09:58 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
Joh.n Spen.cer
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,888
Default

Perhaps one of my saddest collecting days, although I didn't know it at the time, was when I sold my T227 Cobb PSA 6 for an embarrassing small amount, and if that wasn't bad enough I also sold the PSA 7 Baker, now up in the REA auction, for a likewise relative pittance. That card, I must say, is in a league of its own in such a condition sensitive issue not only among the 4 ballplayers but the entire set. Not sure if I am going to try to recapture it, but who knows.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-19-2016, 10:13 AM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

When did you sell them? Based on context, I'm assuming before the "boom" in the prices of vintage graded sales over the last 2-3 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Perhaps one of my saddest collecting days, although I didn't know it at the time, was when I sold my T227 Cobb PSA 6 for an embarrassing small amount, and if that wasn't bad enough I also sold the PSA 7 Baker, now up in the REA auction, for a likewise relative pittance. That card, I must say, is in a league of its own in such a condition sensitive issue not only among the 4 ballplayers but the entire set. Not sure if I am going to try to recapture it, but who knows.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-19-2016, 10:31 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
Joh.n Spen.cer
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,888
Default

Sold them in 2005 after I had moved to London and closed down Full Count. I consigned them to long-time friend Kevin Struss, who was then at Mastro's. where they were eventually auctioned off.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-19-2016, 06:44 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default set quest update

Hey Kin,

thanks for the post, I am doing well on my set quest, now down to needing two cards:

CARD NO. CARD NAME SPORT
1 BRUCE BROWN AUTO RACING
3 C.P. RODGERS (CALBRAITH) AVIATION

These are hard to find. I'll be heading to the National to see if I can dig these up. If anyone has them and willing to sell, LET ME KNOW!

super set, scored a nice Cobby from a fellow member.

two more to go! no updates on the "missing" 25th card yet.

TTYL!

Cliff
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-19-2016, 07:31 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Rob
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: TX
Posts: 3,023
Default

I have not seen a Rodgers or Brown offered for sale in the few years that I have followed the t227 set. I'm currently at 16/24
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t227group16.jpg (75.1 KB, 729 views)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-19-2016, 08:17 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Perhaps one of my saddest collecting days, although I didn't know it at the time, was when I sold my T227 Cobb PSA 6 for an embarrassing small amount, and if that wasn't bad enough I also sold the PSA 7 Baker, now up in the REA auction, for a likewise relative pittance. That card, I must say, is in a league of its own in such a condition sensitive issue not only among the 4 ballplayers but the entire set. Not sure if I am going to try to recapture it, but who knows.


I did the exact same thing with my Cobb in 1991. It would probably have graded a 1 or 2, but it had great eye-appeal. I've been looking for a replacement for several years now, but haven't been able to land it

Regarding the CP Rodgers card; I've been looking for one of them for several years also, as I collect aviator cards. I have yet to see even one card for sale anywhere.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-19-2016, 08:48 PM
ezez420's Avatar
ezez420 ezez420 is offline
Ed
Ed DeS.erio
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 1,590
Default

I was fortunate enough to get the Brown in a collection and Rodgers in a trade with HLC backs. The other Rodgers I know about is an HLC. However, I do not know if there is a Miners Extra Brown and Rodgers that exist.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-19-2016, 11:09 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

It's definitely disconcerting to find that the Brown is so difficult to find and that y'all need it for the set. It's one of only two cards in the set I want to acquire and it's now obvious that if/when one comes available, it's going to go for much more than any of us would like to pay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ezez420 View Post
I was fortunate enough to get the Brown in a collection and Rodgers in a trade with HLC backs. The other Rodgers I know about is an HLC. However, I do not know if there is a Miners Extra Brown and Rodgers that exist.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:51 AM
iowadoc77 iowadoc77 is offline
Eric
Eric
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,631
Default Hey Leon,

Hey Leon, I like your Cobb. Matches mine quite nicely. From the national last year from Roger Burns. Purchased 5 minutes after I had thrown my hands up and given up on finding one of these.

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
Seeking Type 1 photos especially Ruth
I still love the hobby
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:57 AM
rjackson44's Avatar
rjackson44 rjackson44 is offline
octavio ranzola
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Manhattan nyc,congers ny
Posts: 12,053
Default

yoda don't feel bad we all have done crazy things ,,at least you can say you owned them at one time ,,,ive done some pretty crazy deals too .best octavio
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:59 AM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

It's the card version of "better to have loved and lost than never loved at all."


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjackson44 View Post
yoda don't feel bad we all have done crazy things ,,at least you can say you owned them at one time ,,,ive done some pretty crazy deals too .best octavio
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:42 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

That is interesting re the two seeming SPs. I know that T220 silver border has a pair of notorious SPs, Mike Donovan Today and Jas. J. Corbett, and I've long thought that there was some sort of chase or price component to the shortage that has been lost to time. Perhaps the same is true of T227?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-03-2016, 12:33 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Perhaps Bruce Brown bought up all of his copies???

Conspiracy theory and I'm sure incorrect...

I'm listening to a very old episode of "The Talk of Gasoline Alley" with Donald Davidson and he mentioned that when (David) Bruce-Brown's estate was settled in 1914 that he recalls it was worth about 1.3M.

That's a lot of money for 1912 (when he was killed in an accident).

Didn't know if some might like the little nugget of knowledge.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-03-2016, 04:50 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
That is interesting re the two seeming SPs. I know that T220 silver border has a pair of notorious SPs, Mike Donovan Today and Jas. J. Corbett, and I've long thought that there was some sort of chase or price component to the shortage that has been lost to time. Perhaps the same is true of T227?

It appears, after seeing wvu's post (#31), that the shortage of the Brown and Rodgers cards could be attributable to their premature deaths. Rodgers was killed Apr 3, 1912, and Brown was killed Nov 1, 1912.


Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox

Last edited by Steve D; 05-03-2016 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-03-2016, 05:06 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Nice call, Steve! I didn't think about anything like that. It has to be more than coincidence.

I'm only up to four so far, but I'm working on the T36 set and it also includes Brown. It's a 1910 set though, which is among the reasons I'll give for not thinking of that haha.

-kin


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
It appears, after seeing wvu's post (#31), that the shortage of the Brown and Rodgers cards could be attributable to their premature deaths. Rodgers was killed Apr 3, 1912, and Brown was killed Nov 1, 1912.


Steve
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-03-2016, 06:09 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default bruce brown

I was recently in Indianapolis, there was talk of the 100th running of Indy and Bruce Brown winning early on.

220px-David_Bruce-Brown_and_Tony_Scudelari_-_1912_American_Grand_Prize_Milwaukee.jpg

Bruce-Brown and his mechanic Tony Scudelari, shortly before they were killed in a practice accident at the 1912 American Grand Prize.
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-03-2016, 06:44 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Very possible, he finished third in the inaugural race. Ralph Mulford finished second. Brown and Mulford are both in the T36 and T227 sets, while winner Ray Harroun wasn't in either.

The sixth place finisher in the inaugural race was Ralph DePalma, who is in the T36 set. He would win the 500 in 1915.

The wifey and I are headed up to Indianapolis this month for the 100th running of the 500. I've been waiting for this for years!

-Kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marslife View Post
I was recently in Indianapolis, there was talk of the 100th running of Indy and Bruce Brown winning early on.

Attachment 229933

Bruce-Brown and his mechanic Tony Scudelari, shortly before they were killed in a practice accident at the 1912 American Grand Prize.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry

Last edited by Beansballcardblog; 05-03-2016 at 06:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-03-2016, 07:18 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default Indy

HTML Code:
Very possible, he finished third in the inaugural race. Ralph Mulford finished second. Brown and Mulford are both in the T36 and T227 sets, while winner Ray Harroun wasn't in either.

Good stuff Kin! have a good time out there. from the pre race practice sessions and media coverage sounds like it will be quite a party at the race, have fun!

Maybe the missing 25th card was/is/shouldve been Ray Harroun?

Good theory on the deaths of Rodgers and Brown, perhaps the cards are short prints if ATC pulled or did not release more of their cards after the deaths?
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-03-2016, 08:22 PM
Baseball Rarities's Avatar
Baseball Rarities Baseball Rarities is offline
K3v1n Stru55
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marslife View Post
[HTML]Good theory on the deaths of Rodgers and Brown, perhaps the cards are short prints if ATC pulled or did not release more of their cards after the deaths?
FWIW, the card of Rodgers mentions his death on the back - April 3, 1912.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-04-2016, 04:59 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Ah did not know that. I'm into the auto drivers and hadn't looked at any of the others. If nothing else, this narrows down the production dates . Or, are the dates something that's already known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities View Post
FWIW, the card of Rodgers mentions his death on the back - April 3, 1912.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-04-2016, 05:15 PM
Baseball Rarities's Avatar
Baseball Rarities Baseball Rarities is offline
K3v1n Stru55
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
If nothing else, this narrows down the production dates . Or, are the dates something that's already known?
I had it broken down at one time, but I cannot find my notes.

But, just from card of Bruce Brown, it can be determined that the set was issued after June 25, 1912 (date of the mentioned French Grand Prix) and the date of his death - October 1, 1912 (not mentioned).

I am assuming that his card was issued before his death or else they would have mentioned that on the card's reverse as they did with Rodgers.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-07-2019, 06:55 AM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default T227 Master Set Update

Hey Fellas!

after a long exhaustive search, I snagged a Rodgers! Had to "pay up" but happily Got One!

It has an Honest Long Cut back....

bit of a miscut with a sliver of another subject on the edge...

That makes 23/24 one more to go for a full HLC backed set!

TTYL!

Cliff

DSCF0001.jpg
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:17 PM
dgyshcc dgyshcc is offline
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Default T227 Rodgers and Brown at Auction now

Spring Robert Edwards Auction has both a Rodgers and a Brown T227 up for auction
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:36 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

The Brown?

HOLY CRAP ON A CRACKER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgyshcc View Post
Spring Robert Edwards Auction has both a Rodgers and a Brown T227 up for auction
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-26-2024, 06:15 PM
Marslife's Avatar
Marslife Marslife is offline
Cliff
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 640
Default another theory?

just ran across this: David Loney Bruce-Brown's great Grandfather was J.P. Lorrilard! Perhaps this has something to do with the short print?

here is a link to the .pdf:

https://www.firstsuperspeedway.com/s...compressed.pdf
__________________
T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!!
F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50)
"Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction"
T206 Back Set - 37/38
T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48
1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading)
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-26-2024, 06:33 PM
G1911 G1911 is online now
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,309
Default

Whether causation or coincidence, that is a very interesting discovery!



I have wondered if we have it flipped upside down, and Rodgers and Brown were not removed but rather were late additions.

The latest date on any other card is December 1, 1911 on Abe Attell. Most of the biographies end in mid-late 1911, with only a couple exceptions (like Jack Johnson not going past July 4, 1910, a remnant of hijacking his T218/9 write-ups).

Rodgers card mentions his death in April of 1912 (thus, he clearly wasn't pulled because he died - they knew that before even finalizing his card). The last race mentioned on the back of Brown's card was in June of 1912, placing these several months after all of the other subjects biographies ends. It seems off to me, unlikely these two were available at the very beginning of production and quickly pulled. That's a very long lead time.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-27-2024, 07:00 AM
Kidnapped18's Avatar
Kidnapped18 Kidnapped18 is offline
Ton.y Be.ll
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 385
Default

Does anyone has a list of PSA certs that designates backs? (ie HLC or ME)
If so please share email or pm what you have on each subject
I've begun a list and was wondering if one already exists
Here is what I have on Attell:

Abe Attell (Pugilist) (31) 19 out of 31
PSA 5 (1)
(1) - #11051512 (Honest LONG CUT) (#3)

PSA 4.5 (1)
(2) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA) (#1)

PSA 4 (1)
(3) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)

PSA 3 (3)
(4) - #23373926 (MINERS EXTRA)
(5) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA) (Mark’s T227’s)
(6) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)

PSA 3Q (1)
(7) - #23373927 (MK) (MINERS EXTRA)

PSA 2.5 (1)
(8) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA) (RAS)

PSA 2 (8)
(9) - #04541013 (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA) (PRIVATE)
(10) - #14148594 (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(11) - #20515533 (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(12) - #40871327 (MINERS EXTRA)
(13) - #52025305 (Honest LONG CUT)
(14) - #77675359 (Honest LONG CUT)
(15) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(16) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)

PSA 1.5 (3)
(17) - #23101203 (Honest LONG CUT)
(18) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(19) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)

PSA 1 (8)
(20) - #15116672 (Honest LONG CUT) (#6)
(21) - #15815830 (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(22) - #20948928 (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(23) - #21369562 (MINERS EXTRA) (#4)
(24) - #23042722 (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(25) - #24654836 (MINERS EXTRA) #8
(26) - #65251135 (Honest LONG CUT)
(27) - #71111148 (Honest LONG CUT)
(28) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
(29) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)

PSA 1Q (2)
(30) - #08191719 (MK)( MINERS EXTRA) (PRIVATE)
(31) - # (Honest LONG CUT/MINERS EXTRA)
__________________
Tony

Collecting:
1909-1911 T206 Southern Leaguers (Alabama)
1914 Cracker Jack Set (91 out of 145)
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB 1912 T227 Series of Champions Kingcobb Boxing / Wrestling Cards & Memorabilia Forum 1 12-18-2009 08:14 PM
Fraud Alert/ Poor Quality Copies of T227 Series of Champions on EBAY Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 08-30-2002 06:16 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51 PM.


ebay GSB