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  #41  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:57 PM
packs packs is offline
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Oh, I misunderstood your position. You're using what I call the Bill Freehan argument; i.e., I was the best catcher during the ten years I pick out and at a time when the league was either down at my position or there were a few guys with good years but nothing as consistent as me, never mind that my seasonal or "era" numbers never approach anything noteworthy. You added a twist, claiming he's not even the best unless you throw out cheaters. Got it.

But are you saying that Mauer doing what no AL catcher ever did, thrice, is essentially no better than how Posada was the most consistent hitter at his position over a specific ten-year period (leaving aside one other cheater and the fact that the last three years of that span both Mauer and VMart were better hitters and that even Jason Varitek put up similar numbers as Jorge over another three year or so stretch). I don't think so. But hey, you've inspired me to take another look at my Bill Freehan cards, who BTW, was also a better catcher than Posada.
Can a person help when they're alive? Are you of the opinion that a guy cheating to play well and a guy playing well naturally are on equal footing? Is a decade not enough time to show you're better than the people around you?
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:58 PM
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nolemmings nolemmings is offline
Todd Schultz
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I don't know. Ask Bill Freehan.
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  #43  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:03 PM
packs packs is offline
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I will send him an e-mail now.

I don’t discount what you’re saying but you’re not allowing for any weaknesses in Mauer’s career to count against him. We’re talking about a guy (Posada) who caught almost twice as many games as the other.

Last edited by packs; 11-20-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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  #44  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:50 PM
howard38 howard38 is offline
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
I guess the issue here is that I don't see so much separation between the HOF cases for Mauer and Posada. They were both able to do unique things with their bats at the position. So, if you think Mauer winning batting titles makes him a HOF catcher, I'd also call the best offensive catcher of his era (Posada) a HOFer too. The only catchers with bats to match were Pudge and Piazza, both known cheaters.

I only brought up 2007 because Posada put up a high average as a catcher and didn't win. But even if he did I don't think that makes him more of a HOFer than he already was. Whereas you might say "no one has done this before" in terms of Mauer's batting titles, I would say "no one hit like" in terms of Posada's bat.
There is no need to bring up Pudge's "cheating". Posada was the better hitter anyway w/an enormous fifty point edge in OPS.
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  #45  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:25 PM
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He has a higher OPS than Freehan, Howard and Munson too.

Last edited by packs; 11-20-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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  #46  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:44 PM
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There is no need to bring up Pudge's "cheating". Posada was the better hitter anyway w/an enormous fifty point edge in OPS.

If you honestly believe Jorge Posada was a better hitter than Ivan Rodriguez, I would simply ask: When's the last time you changed the bong water?
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Last edited by nolemmings; 11-20-2018 at 08:44 PM.
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  #47  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:24 PM
howard38 howard38 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
If you honestly believe Jorge Posada was a better hitter than Ivan Rodriguez, I would simply ask: When's the last time you changed the bong water?
Never. I was a bambu guy in my smoking days.
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  #48  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:10 PM
dgo71 dgo71 is offline
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I'm just wondering when it became "known" that Piazza was a user. Only thing I ever heard was some beat writer saying he had back acne once. Did he fail a test or get implicated in a Mitchell Report-esque list that I'm unaware of?
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  #49  
Old 11-21-2018, 02:52 AM
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I think there is room for saying some people do have bad luck sometimes. Posada hit 338 in 2007 but he happened to do that while Magglio Ordonez inexplicably hit 363. If Posada won that title, would he be a HOFer?
Nope.

Cecil Cooper hit .352 in 1980. Normally, that's a good bet to win the batting title. Unfortunately for him, George Brett decided to hit .390.
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