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  #151  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:19 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
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At the amount involved, it would probably be a small claims case. Neither side would even need to hire an attorney, although either could and might want to. They would go pitch it to the judge (you generally don't get a jury unless you specifically ask for one which, at least here, generally irritates the assigned judge greatly) and the judge decides. Assuming no attorney involvement, you are out whatever the court costs are, which you recoup if you win. That is the current solution to smaller cases dollar-wise which would otherwise not be financially feasible.
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  #152  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:27 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Cole View Post
At the amount involved, it would probably be a small claims case. Neither side would even need to hire an attorney, although either could and might want to. They would go pitch it to the judge (you generally don't get a jury unless you specifically ask for one which, at least here, generally irritates the assigned judge greatly) and the judge decides. Assuming no attorney involvement, you are out whatever the court costs are, which you recoup if you win. That is the current solution to smaller cases dollar-wise which would otherwise not be financially feasible.
I haven't brushed up on personal jurisdiction recently, but is Chris subject to the jurisdiction of a PA small claims court just by virtue of shipping cards through a common carrier to Mike in PA? There certainly was a time when that would not be enough. If not, Mike has to go to KY.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-13-2018 at 09:28 PM.
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  #153  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:43 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
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I didn't say where Peter. I just said it was probably a small claims matter. That is true wherever it is filed.

But, since you ask, if Mike Peich was called in Pennsylvania for the purpose of arranging the sale of the cards he ultimately purchased, which appears to have been the case at least once if not more if I read his post correctly, I suspect that could be found sufficient minimum contacts, in the form of specific jurisdiction, to allow an action in Pennsylvania. I'm not sure that true but I think it would likely be the case.
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  #154  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Cole View Post
I didn't say where Peter. I just said it was probably a small claims matter. That is true wherever it is filed.

But, since you ask, if Mike Peich was called in Pennsylvania for the purpose of arranging the sale of the cards he ultimately purchased, which appears to have been the case at least once if not more if I read his post correctly, I suspect that could be found sufficient minimum contacts, in the form of specific jurisdiction, to allow an action in Pennsylvania. I'm not sure that true but I think it would likely be the case.
Could be Kenny, minimum contacts ain't what they used to be.
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  #155  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:03 PM
chris chris is offline
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I will try to keep this as short as possible. Most everyone seems to be on the same page; I agree, this is a mess and unfair to leave Mike holding the bag. I am willing to make Mike an offer I feel is fair. (I am sure some of the readers here will feel otherwise.)

I do not wish to argue every point Mike made in his post but I will a few:

9. "Zach indicated that he was going to file a stolen property report with the local authorities in the Ohio county where his grandparents lived. He notified me on September 19, 2016 that he had filed the report and attached a copy of it in his email."
Zach filed an incident report. He did not press charges or file a criminal theft charge against his brother.

10. "I had several conversations at the National with Mr. Buckler about the cards. In every one of them I said that I was going to do the correct thing and return Zach’s cards to him. I also told him that I felt he should return the $3700 I had paid him for the cards. He demurred and said that his legal counsel had suggested that he was not responsible and could do nothing until Zach filed a formal theft report. When I pointed out that he could ask Mr. Siska to return his money, Mr. Buckler felt that might cause a rupture in his business relationship with Mr. Siska."
I simply stated the two dealers that handled the cards before me, would not entertain a refund down the chain unless criminal charges were filed and Mike kept possession of the cards until a legal assessment of the transaction of events could be legally documented.

"I want to respond to a few of Mr. Buckler’s FACTS.
3. I attempted to work with all parties to facilitate a reasonable outcome.
A few times at the National, but not afterward."
We discussed Zach filling criminal charges against his brother on the the phone multiple times. In addition, I worked with Zach at the National and afterwards in an attempt to locate other missing cards in KY and OH areas.

6. M is a well known, honest guy. While I can't blame him for turning the cards over, I do wish we could have discussed with the proper authorities before moving forward.
"Mr. Buckler never made the suggestion that we talk “with the proper authorities” before moving forward. I told him repeatedly what I was going to do with the stolen property, and I asked that he do the same and refund my purchase price."
Absolutely not true. I told him what the others dealers involved had discussed and Mike completely ignored all requests to speak with legal counsel.

Mike, you did have every opportunity over the past 450+ days to pick up the phone and call or email me back.

Here is my offer. I refund you 50% of your purchase price, $1850. As far as the remaining money, I feel Zach needs to press criminal charges against his brother. If that takes place, hopefully, WE can work together to seek restitution against Zach’s brother. Or Zach can pay you the portion to make you whole. I had absolutely NO idea the cards were stolen and I have no control over Zach’s decision to criminally charge his brother. I’m sure many of you will disagree with me, hate me, never do business with me, etc.. you are entitled to do as you choose. Mike, if this is agreeable please confirm your address and I will put a check in the mail Monday morning.

Mike, I am very sorry to hear of your son in laws health. I wish you and your family nothing but the best.

Finally, I really HATE to read some very disparaging posts calling me a scumbag. I have been very active in this hobby for almost 15 years as a collector and dealer. I have NEVER took advantage of anyone. I realize there are people on this board who are fortunate enough to say $3,700 or $15,000 is a small sum of money. Unfortunately for me and many others $3,700 is a lot of money and I am not lucky enough to live such a privileged life as you. Congratulations for being such an outstanding citizen and an overall winner at life. You are free to form your own opinion but I am no scumbag.
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  #156  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:12 PM
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Jeffrey Lichtman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
I realize there are people on this board who are fortunate enough to say $3,700 or $15,000 is a small sum of money. Unfortunately for me and many others $3,700 is a lot of money and I am not lucky enough to live such a privileged life as you. Congratulations for being such an outstanding citizen and an overall winner at life. You are free to form your own opinion but I am no scumbag.
I work nearly 7 days a week, every week, and have pressures from my career you can't even begin to comprehend. So any "luck" you perceive that I have is due to hard work and sacrifice. And if JC thinks you're a scumbag that's good enough for me.

Last edited by calvindog; 01-13-2018 at 10:13 PM.
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  #157  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:14 PM
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Tom Boblitt
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I know Chris and I know Mike and I think both are great people. I hope this somehow works out because I hate to see Mike's issue and hate to to see Chris' issue. I don't know Zach nor his brother. I understand why Chris requested the police action and I understand why Zach ultimately reneged. My close coworkers daughter sold off grandmas silver and her boyfriend cut out his catalytic converter for $100 worth of platinum in it. People do crazy stuff. Anyway, hope this is a step in the right direction.

Last edited by autograf; 01-13-2018 at 10:14 PM.
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  #158  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:14 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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I am sure some won't agree but I think it's reasonable and commend Chris for coming forward, as I expected he would, based on his reputation. I also think (as I believe Tim originally mentioned) it might be nice of Zach at least to convey a few cards back to Mike as a gesture of his appreciation for Mike's integrity and going above and beyond to recover the cards he already had sold.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-13-2018 at 10:16 PM.
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  #159  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:17 PM
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the-illini the-illini is offline
C.hris Bl.and
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I am sure some won't agree but I think it's reasonable and commend Chris for coming forward, as I expected he would not knowing him personally except for a couple of purchases but based on his solid reputation. I also think (as I believe Tim originally mentioned) it might be nice of Zach at least to convey a few cards back to Mike as a gesture of his appreciation for Mike's integrity and going above and beyond to recover the cards he already had sold.
+1

While I didn't agree with how Chris handled this originally I respect him for coming on here and taking the heat while trying to make things better.

Chris Bland
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  #160  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:30 PM
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Jason Jason is offline
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I think it would be appropriate for Zach to comment on the thread instead of just reading it for the past two days
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