Board Administration

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Posted By: Elliot

I'm a bit concerned about the proliferation of posts soliciting card from auction lot winners from the various large auctions. Going forward I would like to see all of these posts contained in the existing Buy/Sell/Trade thread. To be fair I am leaving the existing posts up, but in the future they will be taken down. Please try not to slip in a plug for a card wanted or for sale in a post on another topic. I don't want to set firm rules but i think that everybody knows what is acceptable and what is not.

On a related topic, I realize that everybody wants their post in the Buy/Sell/Trade section to be at the top, and thus some people are jumping the gun with starting a new thread. Going forward, I will start a new thread when I think that the old one has gotten too long or too stale. If i haven't done anything and you think it's time, please don't hesitate to contact me.

I am also aware that people are frustrated by the pop-up ads, as am I. By the beginning of the new year, i expect that this problem will be solved.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to wish everybody a Happy Holiday Season, and hope that all your collecting (and other) dreams come true in the upcoming year.

Elliot

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Posted By: RC_McKenzie

Elliot:

Great board, but does this mean that Hankron can't try to sell his books on here?

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Posted By: Hankron

Elliot told me that, if I was good, he would give me a thread all to myself for Christmas.

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Posted By: dan mckee

What is the big deal about those posts? This board seems to have a group of regulars and several have posted about mastro wants. Did someone complain? Anyway, it has gotten to the point where I am worried about what I am writing all of the time and I do not think I should feel that way because I do not feel I have done anything wrong so I am going to take a break from the board. If anyone needs me, I can be reached at r337man@yahoo.com. Was it ok to write my email in??????

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Posted By: runscott

...so I hate to see this kind of thing come up again when it seems to be the board is going smooth and the bickering is minimal.

The Mastro auction just ended, so I think a thread or two to discuss wins, needs, etc. is completely warranted.

Maybe if we made the "buy/sell/trade" thread "sell/trade-only", Elliot wouldn't feel like plugs were being inserted in discussions. If you need a card, I would prefer that you be able to make your need known wherever the discussion is taking place.

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Posted By: leon

I don't have a problem with some individual threads, pertaining to sales/trades/swaps, after a big auction or every once in a while. If it gets out of hand then moderation might be warranted. Until then I would prefer to let things go....hopefully, you will agree with the majority, Elliot. We really appreciate the board and want (at least I do) what is best for the majority. Happy holidays and here's to contemplating what to do with 16 cards in a 17 card lot that I don't need....see, a little shameless plug like that should not be a problem AND I agree with Dan'o...I don't want to have to watch what I say..too much....regards all

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Posted By: petecld

The whole essence of the hobby is about finding the cards you don't have and you want and being able to find someone who wants the cards you do have but don't want anymore. Considering how this board can get at times I don't see a big problem with putting up a notice looking for Mastro winners. I'd like the practice to continue. He only has, what, 4 or 6 auctions a year and by my count only 4 threads were initiated regarding requests to Mastro winners. Are those posts really such a huge problem?

Just recently I was able to acquire a card I have been looking for for quite some times thanks to a post I made on this board. I'd hate to think that would be the last time that happens.

I have no problems with the way the board handles "Buy/Sell/Trade" requests and a little sales plug every now and then isn't hurting anyone. I feel all 3 options should stay.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I am sort of half and half on the issue. I agree with Elliot that these types of posts should be in the buy/sell/trade thread, but I would agree with the group that starting a seperate "looking for..." thread after a major auction would be a good idea.

If everyone can keep everythign neat adn tidy in one thread, I don't think Elliot should ahve a problme with it. Otherwise, new people coming to the board will just think this is some sort of free for all market place with a discussion tossed in here and there. And that would just drive away any new people looking for information and/or help.

Jay

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Posted By: Ben

First, I'd like to thank everybody for welcoming me to the board so warmly over the past few months. I must say, I've learned alot from you guys...without you I would probably have been suckered into a few bad deals.

Second, about the buy/sell/trade issue, what I've noticed on other boards is that they have a entirely seperate forum for that kind of stuff. Could that work here? I think having a main board along with a link to a seperate board for want lists, trade ideas, and even selling plugs would be alright. That way, the main board wouldn't be cluttered with all of that kind of stuff...

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Wow...I was totally shocked to see Elliot make a ruling regarding the Mastro Auction discussion.

I mean, when you think about it, so much of our Vintage Card conversations really involve some level of buying, selling, or some sort of transaction of some nature that has come to our attention...

...I guess I'd like to know why this one specifically has to be "banned" in the future or disallowed. Obviously, the majority of the regulars here participated in the thread(s), even I whined about my poverty and inability to play in Mastro's sandbox this time around. I really didn't seem to think this was even skirtingan issue whatsoever.

Our Board is currently seeing one of the best levels of: 1) Harmony, 2) Participation, 3) Agreeable, non-attacking arguing and discussion, 4) New Board Members coming in... that I can remember seeing since I started posting here a long time ago.

I'm kinda shocked and a littel dismayed that this is "being handed down". We are so much about interaction and making transactions with one another over Vintage Cards that it almost seems counterproductive and unreasonable restrictive.

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Posted By: runscott

I think Elliot was concerned more about the "buy/sell/trade" thread being started anew so often, and also about people starting various other threads for "showcasing" their selling needs - many examples come to mind.

It's hard to believe he had any real problem with the "I need so and so from the Mastro auction".

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

One Mastro auction, one thread afterwards - what's wrong with that? I don't see what this has to do with "harmony"... If you need something to get dismayed about, how about the unpleasant second guessing that occurs whenever Elliot makes a request?

Bill

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Posted By: Bob

When I see a thread discussing the relative merits of some obscure set from 1899, I just skip the thread and go on to the next. Why can't a poster/reader who has no interest in seeing what Pete or Scott or Tom or myself would like to secure from the Mastro auction via the winner, just skip to the next thread? This board is invaluable not only for the information and comraderie it provides but because it is the only avenue I know of to seek out and find cards I need/want. I was able to obtain some much sought after T207s after 3 years of fruitless looking, simply because a "lurker" happened to read my post here.
With regard to the second issue, the "buy/sell/want" post, it gets so long that after I have checked it a few times, to be quite honest, I don't go back and go through all the old posts to find a new one. It tends to become stale when it has old and read posts which you have to navigate through in the chance of finding something interesting. I think in the case of a truly unique and interesting card which you would like the board frequenters (for lack of a better term) to have first crack at before it goes on ebay or as soon as it does (especially with a BIN) there should be a little leniency shown. I am not talking about a VG- T206 common, but something different and very collectible.

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Posted By: runscott

that we should keep our opinions to ourselves?

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Posted By: hankron.

Personally, I don't think it's a big issue one way or the other-- and there are a satisfactory methods of handling this occasional situtation. However, unless I have an extreme disagreement, I will go along with what Elliot says on board issues.

In case you don't appreceate Elliot's leadership-- remember that, if he goes in Lott-like fashion, I might be next in line to head the board: and no one wants that.

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Posted By: Hankron

Potentially to clarify, I was not complaining about anyone voicing their disenting opinions. I was merely offering my vote for Elliot as arbiter.

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Posted By: runscott

Every time Elliot makes a statement, if ANYONE responds, there are always one or two of you who accuse the respondents of "Not Appreciating" Elliot's work. This is malarkey - voicing an opinion in response to Elliot's statement DOES NOT mean that we don't appreciate him - it means that we have minds that produce thoughts, and we feel it is in the interest of everyone on the board that thoughts are expressed.

So, please - enough of that "you don't appreciate..." Bull - it's stale, old, ineffective, and mis-placed.

And before someone parses the hell out the above response to find some sort of evil intent - don't waste your time, there isn't any, and this .

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I'm saying that a perfectly reasonable request was made to keep it to one thread per auction and I don't think it deserved rebuttals.

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Posted By: runscott

You would like to make the decision as to when it is appropriate/inappropriate for people to express their thoughts.

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Posted By: Bob

to run the posts for a Buy/Sell/Trade thread in reverse order, putting the newest first? Just a thought.
With regard to Bill's comments, I agree it is Elliot's board and he can do whatever he wants, I have neither the time nor the inclination to take on the responsibility of running a webpage board on vintage cards. On the other hand, I thought it was important that I posted why I thought a compromised solution might be more feasible and better for those who use the board. I wasn't being critical of Elliot, I was merely proposing an alternate idea. It's his board, he can think about it and if he disagrees, ignore it.
I had a post exorcised from the board today concerning an uncatalogued caramel card proof I plaved on ebay. I won't list the link, you can find it if you try. I was drawing a distinction between something unique and not seen before and a run of the mill "hey gang, I've got a VG T206 common for sale." I felt that the post was worthy of comments and inquiries but if Elliot felt it was merely an attempt to promote the card and circumvent the Buy/Sell/Trade thread, so be it. It's his board. This doesn't mean I agree, but I accept his decision.

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Posted By: runscott

Elliot expresses concern and reminds us of the rules, we express our thoughts, he does with them as he wishes, we express dismay if we disagree. It all seems very reasonable.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Yes, I initiated one of the post-Mastro items in question, but at least mine wasn't as brazen as Pete's - I at least asked the winners and losers to tell their war stories first.

I didn't see my post as being any different (and quite frankly, a heck of a lot less offensive) than some of the more famous threads of the past and, as Bob pointed out, everybody does have the option of ignoring any thread they want.

I have no problem following whatever rule Elliott sets and we all agree to. I am one of many who have found board members to be not only excellent sources of information, but quite willing to help out other members in advancing their collections.

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Posted By: leon

I disagree with the deletion of the post about the proof caramel card . I wish some folks could have commented on it's authenticity. Or better yet one of the veteran expert lurkers could have potentially emailed me about it. Not now, I guess....I think we all need to be able to post our opinions on stuff. Elliot does a great job with the board and I am not being personal when I say stuff. I am just expressing my opinion. I think we are grown up enough to moderate ourselves to a certain extent where selling/buying/trading/auctions is concerned. I do like the thread that is devoted to it too.... If someone gets out of hand then something should be done...I didn't see any of that..... When one of the trouble makers comes a long spewing venom then YES they should be deleted....otherwise give peace a chance... just my 2 cents.....regards all

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Posted By: petecld

Kevin,

Oh yeah, your Mastro post is so much more subtle than mine. That one sentence you threw in to "soften up" your post before asking for cards from the Mastro auction was sensitivity at it's finest.

I foolishly kept my post focused on the intention of the post. Silly me, next time I will make all my posts as mis-leading - but much less brazen - just like yours.

Dan - I may join you on that break. First beer is on me.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Pete:

Sorry you mistoook my comment as a dig at you. The smiley face afterwards was clearly (at least to me) meant to show that I was poking fun at myself for my own thinly veiled solicitation.

No offense at all was intended.

Kevin

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Geez. I don't think there's any question that this is Elliot's board to administer. And, I don't think there's any question to the fact that Elliot is doing a terrific job of it.

But, as the administrator/law enforcer/legislator, when he lays down a new "statute" for us to play by, I think he fully expects ot hear people's opinions on it, whether they agree or not. I think Elliot has been historically quite good about taking praise and constructive criticism.

Elliot is lucky as of late, as there has been little need for any "refereeing" on his part. It must be nice to kick back and enjoy... Nevertheless, I think it's the opinion of several members who post on this Board that perhaps the last thing was too much legislation where it wasn't needed. You can't have a law for every little thing that might happen, even in the real world, and we don't tend to make 'em until they're needed. Here it doesn't seem like anything was needed, no harm to anyone, no foul. In fact, the threads were informative, they were being heavily trafficked/used/responded to, it was in reference to Vintage Cards and collecting...they really seemed ok and not "out of line" to me. And, like Jay said, if you don't want to read them, you can pass over them if the topic is not of particular interest to you personally.

-dan

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Posted By: jay behrens

but if let all these pleas for wanting cards from various lots have their own threads, than the threads that actually discuss a topic regarding cards, etc gets bumped further and fursther down the page until it disappears and there is nothing but pleas for cards on the first page and think this is what Elliot is trying to avoid.

This of course is a worst case senario. Keeping it all on one thread wouldn't be an issue.

Jay

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I have No opinion, but Iam also mindless.

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Posted By: vorthian

<< Elliot is lucky as of late, as there has been little need for any "refereeing" on his part. It must be nice to kick back and enjoy... >>

But CAN he kick back and enjoy? I equate this as a party; we are having fun but Elliot is making sure noone breaks a lamp, spills a beer, etc.

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Posted By: runscott

so we've been spilling a lot of beer (but not breaking any furniture) and some of the designated drivers are getting bored and irritated.

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Posted By: leon

I am here to tell ya the host of a party can get just as trashed as the rest of the revelers. Remember my room, in the wee hours of the morning, at the National? till next year....best regards

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Posted By: runscott

the posters who didn't like us rebutting would be the self-designated drivers.

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

Can all the AAA messages be addressed on a single thread?

Think we all know about the magazine cuts, eBay policies and all that crap already.

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Posted By: runscott

"freedom of speech".

How long does it actually take you to open a thread, decide it's not for you...and move on to the next thread?

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Posted By: runscott

We hear complaints all the time about how we have too many threads of a certain type, this posting isn't appropriate, your opinion or rebuttal isn't welcomed (or necessary),etc.etc.etc...

Hey, the only way to address all these complaints would be to have designated "category threads" and all posts would have to be under one of the categories or be DELETED DAMN IT! (...along with those horrid anonymous posts of course). Do we really want all this censorship? Are we grown-ups or what?

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...new collectors come into the hobby all the time, why should they go back and back and back to find old threads of information. Like the AAA stuff for example, it is constantly going on, with an occasional new twist in deception that Huff throws in now and then (like his recently added PSA-graded common card worth 25 cents...which he adds so he can put PSA in the auction title...obviously proving to all of us that his own AAA is worthless on its own).

These are current matters, still happening, we see new posters coming ot the board often enough, i think it warrants letting people post new threads whenever they want, for everyone to read (or decide not to read) if they want. The back arrow only takes a second to hit if you notice a thread doesn't interest you.

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Posted By: runscott

I looked under this thread for the new post, saw "Dan Mathewson", closed and moved on. heh heh Dan - really hope you are having a great holiday season, and it's great knowing you!

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I mean, he only has the greatest auctions ever, even if most of us can't afford almost all the things. I'm about to buy a Mastro cad, but I didn't win it! (It was offered...)

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I like the idea of being able to ask about the winners of auctions with the idea of getting the one or two items I might have really wanted. Personally, I often find myself refraining from bidding on lots in Mastro and other auctions because of all the material in the lot that I don't want and don't want to have to resell. When I have gotten lots like that I would have welcomed a forum like this one to help turn over the unwanted excess and perhaps (GASP!) even work a trade for something else I really want.

W/R/T the buy-sell thread, how about starting two threads: (1) buy and sell, (2) trade? Then how about we agree that a new thread is to be started each week at a given time?