A few VERY basic questions from a new/old collector

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Posted By: DrJ

I was wondering if anyone could help me out a bit. I used to collect tobacco cards about 14-16 years ago, but went into a long hibernation during many years of college/grad school/post grad school and their attendant poverty. Lately, I've rekindled my interest in collecting, and have looked through some websites and ebay. I was a bit alarmed (and I suppose naive as well) to find that there are reprints of even common tobacco cards floating around, with enough wear on them to make them look "authentic". Is this a widespread problem? How worried do you have to be if you buy something that is not listed as being graded by, say, PSA? If a dealer says that their cards are not reprints, how far can you take them on their word? I have not bought anything yet, and am waiting to get some sense of this issue. Unlike many, I am happy to buy a relatively beat up card, since I like them for their artwork and overall gestaldt. But I guess you have to be on guard even with the roughed-up ones as well.

This issue has probably been so played out on this message board that everyone's sick of dealing with it. But, if you could give me some advice, it will be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

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Posted By: jay behrens

sadly, the search function is broken at the moment. Yes, there are an alarming number of reprints on eBay, but you are doing the right thing by coming here first. Spend some time here, get to know the people around here. Many of the top collectors and dealers post and read here. Dig into the old posts and read everything you can here. It's teach you a lot and is well worth the read.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: PASJD

I would either buy graded cards, or I would check out some of the websites of some of the very knowledgeable people who post on this board which are listed in the links section and who undoubtedly sell only the genuine articles. I think it takes a fair amount of experience to develop the sophistication to tell the difference in the non-obvious cases, and it is that much harder to do from a scan. There is certainly plenty to choose from between graded cards and unslabbed cards from dealers/collectors you can trust.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The best thing is to gather a list of knowledgeable and reputable sellers on eBay and elsewhere and shop with them.

Many reprints look like reprints even in eBay auctions.

For sellers you are unfamiliar with, make sure they clearly state what is the authenticity guarantee/return policy. If you don't like the guarantee and policy, don't bid.

There's a difference between buying a $10 Goudey common from someone you don't know an a $1,000 Goudey Babe Ruth from someone you don't know. With the $10 common, the best that can happen is that you are happy with the purchase and you have an addition for your good sellers list. The worst that can happen is you are out $10.

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Posted By: steve k

These reprints were also around when you were collecting 14 - 16 years ago. It was easy to pull out a 16X glass and spot a reprint. Very tough if not sometimes impossible to do that on Ebay on certain cards. As was mentioned, buying raw commons from reputable dealers is okay. On higher priced cards, I would always stick with graded cards even from reputable dealers. If a reputable dealer is selling an expensive card raw, there is probably a reason for that, and that reason won't be to your benefit.

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Posted By: A Word of Caution DrJ

A few outbreaks within the slab world have come to light.
The altered prognosis of one of them, could have been a very expensive doctors bill.
Fortunately, the knowledgeable and very astute collector, picked up what was missed by the Slab Grader, and thus avoided the agony of owning an expensive doctored card.

The best are sometimes fooled.
Learn as much as you can about cards.
Read about them, and see as many as you can.
Re establish a feel for them.
It's not a crime to make a mistake.
It's a crime when you repeat it.
Learn from it.
If you're coming back into the hobby, enjoy it for what it is.
If you're coming in for the investment part.
Like the stock market, it reacts to good and bad news.

For whatever reason:
Welcome back, and enjoy it.
Joe

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Posted By: T206Collector

"buying raw commons from reputable dealers is okay. On higher priced cards, I would always stick with graded cards even from reputable dealers. If a reputable dealer is selling an expensive card raw, there is probably a reason for that, and that reason won't be to your benefit."

Even if no cards were reprints, I would never buy a nice looking raw card for more than $100 on ebay -- there's too great a chance that a card has a hidden flaw that even the most reputable dealer missed. And this is likely the reason the card isn't slabbed. When I started out on ebay, I purchased a Chance (Yellow), Huggins Hands At Mouth, McGraw Portrait With Cap and a Hugh Duffy -- all raw. The McGraw and the Duffy looked trimmed to me when I got them home and so I returned them for a full refund. The Huggins and Chance I got graded by PSA -- the Huggins came back a 4 (as expected) and the Chance came back a 4 MK (I never saw the erased pencil until I bought a 10x loop and looked at it under magnification). But the crowning decision-maker was a Walter Johnson Portrait that I bought for $500 that the dealer said was in excellent condition and, when e-mailed, confirmed that there were no creases. When I got the card, I flipped it over, and sure enough -- a back-corner crease. Fortunately for me, he refunded me the entire purchase price. After that, I decided, I'm sticking with PSA/SGC/GAI. Of course, I got burned a couple of times by PSA's lax quality control in terms of grades, and so now I try to only buy SGC graded cards, unless I'm desperate.

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Posted By: Harry

As I'm sure you have seen, there are two dozen plus grading companies out there. Some that will grade a card and not even look at whether it is authentic or not. If to stick to PSA and SGC, you should be OK.

Harry

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Posted By: Joe P.

The high ended doctored card that was spotted by a very well known knowledgeable collector, was graded in an SGC slab.

Joe P.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

DrJ,

My impression is that that majority of eBay sellers are honest if imperfect, and that most of the scams are done by only a handful of people. The most common problem involves a seller who is honest but is not knowledgeable about the item being sold.

I'm a regular eBay bidder. I read people's descriptions-- you can usually tell if the seller is knowledgeable or full of it from reading the description. The more you know about the area, the better he can judge the description, picture and seller. For people I don't know, I check the feedback and see what other stuff they sell to see their level of experience in the general area. For sellers I don't know, I gravitate towards sellers with good and large feedback, or at least sellers who obviously know what they are talking about. I expect the seller to state that the item is guaranteed vintage or original or authentic-- and most reputable sellers do.

I have bookmarked or otherwise remember the eBay ids of my favorite sellers and regularly check what they have. I occasionally buy less expensive items from sellers I haven't dealt with before and am ordarilly satisfied with my purchase.

I only buy certain items from sellers who I know and trust or who otherwise have stellar reputations. I only buy autographs from a handful of sellers. I don't care how good the item looks, I'm never going place a $700 bid on an item from an eBay seller with 0 feedback.

My practice with a seller I am not familiar with who sells a lot of stuff I like is to buy one or two items and see how the purchases go ... Yes, sellers, it's a test, and how you treat a new customer and how closely the item and the sales description does directly effect your repeate business ... Most of my bookmarked favorite sellers are people who I started by buying one or two items. The reason I bookmark these people is that they sell hard to find items I like, are honest, very very knowledgeable and experienced in the area, their descriptions are accurate and you get the items.

Some eBay sellers are top experts in their field. A beginning collector can go onto eBay and buy a baseball card from Lew Lipset or an autograph from Richard Simon. I've bought on eBay significant original photographs by well known photographers from the actual photographers. If a collector does some research and asks around, he can be buying on eBay from some of the most prominent and knowledgeable people in the world ... As a photograph collector, it's a sign that the seller is knowledgeable about the item he sold you when he says, "I remember the day I shot that photograph. It started to rain and my assistant forgot to bring the umbrellas."

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Posted By: Great Advise for a

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Posted By: JimB

In addition to PSA and SGC, GAI is also a good and reputable grading company. The most notorious one to avoid is PRO. I would never buy anything in a PRO holder no matter what. The card may be real, but is likely trimmed or altered in some way.
JimB