GOAT of GOATs?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

This is a very complicated thread and something only a guy like Peter would start (just playing with you, buddy.)

How do we measure dominance? Is it by focusing on statistics alone, or the number of awards, or the number of times the athlete helped his team get to the finals? There are so many different things to look at here. Also, let's not forget that certain positions get more attention in sports. For example, forwards get more love than defenders and goaltenders.

A lot of people consider Gretzky to be the GOAT of GOATS (or whatever you want to call it), but they all fail to see the big picture. Gretzky played on an amazing team and many of these guys made the NHL top 100 list, such as Messier, Kurri, Fuhr, Coffey, etc. Now here is something that rarely gets mentioned: after Gretzky was traded to the Los Angeles Kings, the Oilers won another cup WITHOUT HIM. In other words, they proved to the hockey world that they didn't need Gretzky to be great. Furthermore, many of these guys went on to win cups with other teams. For example, Messier won with the New York Rangers and Paul Coffey with Pittsburgh. Gretzky never won the cup again.

Now let's take a look at Bobby Orr. In the 10 seasons he played with Boston - his career was a very short one - he won 8 consecutive Norris Trophies as the league's best defender and 3 consecutive Hart trophies. He is the only player in his position to win the Art Ross Trophy, and he did it twice. He took his team to the finals 3 times and won twice. He would would play insane defense, often dropping to his knees and taking punishment, and he was just as effective in the attacking zone. He had two seasons where he almost scored 40 goals, and towards the end his career, despite playing in a lot of pain, almost had 50 goals - we're talking about a DEFENDER here! The list goes on and on and those who saw him play consider him to be way better than Gretzky. I would take him and Gordie Howe over scrawny Gretzky.

Not that it adds much to the eternal Gretzky v Orr debate, but I once heard Gordie Howe interviewed and he was asked if he could pick one of them to start a team, which would it be. He said Orr.