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  #21  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:34 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
The DH of an American League team is still going to make an out more than 70% of the time on average. It is not like every team's DH is Rod Carew, though I do concede that usually any position player stands a better chance of getting a hit than a pitcher.
How much of a better chance? 10%? Now you see why i get annoyed with the 'almost no hitter' in the NL.....because no hitters in the NL arent even worth the same as AL no hitters...

You can be a pitcher and have a .070 on base percentage on the year ..but try that being a DH..see how long you will stay in the lineup.

Leagues make rule changes based on 20 years of history (thus they look at modern trends as reality) so you cant just say its only 20 years of history and we need to go back to 1970 as someone else stated... Its not even close as far as how many NL no hitters there have been versus AL in the last 20 years. Lets see the next 2 out of 3 no hitters be in AL parks before we bring this back up.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 05-18-2017 at 10:38 AM.
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  #22  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:39 AM
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I don't know what you mean by worth. In 2016 Prince Fielder played 89 games total, 80 of which he served as DH. He hit 212 with a 292 OBP.
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  #23  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:19 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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I don't know what you mean by worth. In 2016 Prince Fielder played 89 games total, 80 of which he served as DH. He hit 212 with a 292 OBP.
If he was a Starting Pitcher, that would make him one of the best Starting Pitcher hitters in the past 20 years. How many starting pitchers in the NL last year had a higher than 292 OBP. (Madison Baumgarner's career OBP is .233 and career best is .286) I am sure I can point to some DH's that hit .300+ as well and can point to many Starting pitchers that hit under .100.... I can also point to some number 8 hitters in NL lineups that were pitched around more than number 8 hitters in AL lineups due to the pitcher hitting in the 1-6th innings..

Not many DH's hit 9th or 8th? How many starting pitchers hit 9th or 8th? Why do so many starting pitchers hit 9th? Is it because they are great hitters? There are at least more than a few DH's hitting cleanup or 5th...

at least 16 of the last 20 no hitters (thats a large sample size) have been in NL parks.. like i said ..lets wait to see when the next 2 out of 3 no hitters are in AL parks before analyze more..

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 05-18-2017 at 11:29 AM.
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  #24  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:33 AM
packs packs is offline
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I just don't think the DH is as good as you think. Greg Vaughn's career as a DH (over 1600 PA's) amounted to a 218 average. Reggie hit 227 as a DH. Adam Dunn hit 200 as a DH. Cecil Cooper hit 261 with a 298 OBP. The DH isn't always a good player.

Last edited by packs; 05-18-2017 at 11:33 AM.
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  #25  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:55 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
I just don't think the DH is as good as you think. Greg Vaughn's career as a DH (over 1600 PA's) amounted to a 218 average. Reggie hit 227 as a DH. Adam Dunn hit 200 as a DH. Cecil Cooper hit 261 with a 298 OBP. The DH isn't always a good player.
Adam Dunn walked a lot. Cecil Coopers OBP still destroyed almost every starting pitcher obp in the last 20 years. The fact that the DH usually takes more pitches to get out means something for the pitch count as well. There are no starting pitchers that could take the job away from a DH. So the worst DH in the world is still better than the best SP hitter in terms of being a hitter. If you want to point to 1 or 2 players you can go ahead but still that would be 99% still in favor of the DH. I would imagine that would at least account for making it more than just a little harder to get a no hitter in the AL versus NL......16 or 17 of the last 20 hitters have been in NL parks. Pitchers over the years have become worse hitters as well as the game has become more specialized as well. Plus pitch counts are more important now. There may of been some AL no hitters in the 1970s with a pitch count that normally would have had them removed from the game. The game is different now.

David Ortiz was pretty good as a DH. Matt Holiday/Pujols and many others blow away even the very best starting pitcher hitter. By giving the NL no hitter 90% of the value of a AL no hitter that does account that the DH isnt always good. 10% is not a lot considering all the factors.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 05-18-2017 at 12:02 PM.
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:58 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
How much of a better chance? 10%? Now you see why i get annoyed with the 'almost no hitter' in the NL.....because no hitters in the NL arent even worth the same as AL no hitters...

You can be a pitcher and have a .070 on base percentage on the year ..but try that being a DH..see how long you will stay in the lineup.

Leagues make rule changes based on 20 years of history (thus they look at modern trends as reality) so you cant just say its only 20 years of history and we need to go back to 1970 as someone else stated... Its not even close as far as how many NL no hitters there have been versus AL in the last 20 years. Lets see the next 2 out of 3 no hitters be in AL parks before we bring this back up.
Chase Anderson goes 7 innings of no hit ball? Yet another almost NL no hitter C'mon


Plus 1 hitters with no walks are a lot more impressive than no hitters with 5 walks....chase had at least 3 walks yesterday..

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 05-28-2017 at 08:58 AM.
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  #27  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:23 AM
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So if I am reading this thread correctly, only no-hitters in the American League after the institution of the DH in 1973 are valid.

Therefore Sandy Koufax has zero career no-hitters.

Nolan Ryan had a combination of AL no-hitters and NL almost no-hitters.

I'm not sure if any HOF pitchers have mention of no-hitters on their plaque in Cooperstown, but if so, inserting the word "almost" on their plaque could be problematic. Would an asterisk (a la Maris) be sufficient?

And what about poor Johnny Vandermeer. Would his double no-hitter be wiped off the books completely or would it be considered an "almost" double no-hitter.

In summation, I would be willing to bet that not one of the proponents of the DH rule change for the American League realized that their proposal would invalidate all prior no-hitters.

I say "long live the Almost No-Hitter".

For clarity of the linguistics involved, I would propose a different term for no-hitters broken up in the late innings, and would suggest calling these "Nearly No-Nos".
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Last edited by frankbmd; 05-29-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
Chase Anderson goes 7 innings of no hit ball? Yet another almost NL no hitter C'mon


Plus 1 hitters with no walks are a lot more impressive than no hitters with 5 walks....chase had at least 3 walks yesterday..

Now you're getting wound up about non-no hit games? LOL!


I think I'm going to start an autograph collage. All pitchers (AL only) who had their no-hitters broken up after 7 innings.
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2017, 02:51 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
So if I am reading this thread correctly, only no-hitters in the American League after the institution of the DH in 1973 are valid.

Therefore Sandy Koufax has zero career no-hitters.

Nolan Ryan had a combination of AL no-hitters and NL almost no-hitters.

I'm not sure if any HOF pitchers have mention of no-hitters on their plaque in Cooperstown, but if so, inserting the word "almost" on their plaque could be problematic. Would an asterisk (a la Maris) be sufficient?

And what about poor Johnny Vandermeer. Would his double no-hitter be wiped off the books completely or would it be considered an "almost" double no-hitter.

In summation, I would be willing to bet that not one of the proponents of the DH rule change for the American League realized that their proposal would invalidate all prior no-hitters.

I say "long live the Almost No-Hitter".

For clarity of the linguistics involved, I would propose a different term for no-hitters broken up in the late innings, and would suggest calling these "Nearly No-Nos".

No you are not reading it correct. I said after 1973, that NL no hitters are worth MORE than AL no hitters (from 1973 and on) Sandy Koufax is safe.. I proposed 10% more value to the NL no hitter or you can have AL no hitters be worth 10% less. Pitch counts and various other factors I contend are showing that NL no hitters are trending to be much easier. (at least 16 of the last 20 no hitters have been in NL Parks).

It was last year with all of the 'nearly no-no's that occurred in the NL is what made me come up with this. Plus the chris hestons of the world

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 05-29-2017 at 02:52 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
No you are not reading it correct. I said after 1973, that NL no hitters are worth MORE than AL no hitters (from 1973 and on) Sandy Koufax is safe.. I proposed 10% more value to the NL no hitter or you can have AL no hitters be worth 10% less. Pitch counts and various other factors I contend are showing that NL no hitters are trending to be much easier. (at least 16 of the last 20 no hitters have been in NL Parks).

It was last year with all of the 'nearly no-no's that occurred in the NL is what made me come up with this. Plus the chris hestons of the world
So NL no-hitters are worth 10% more, because the pitchers have to face opposing pitchers instead of DHs. Gosh, I would have thought just the opposite. Are you sure?

Your analysis gives me a headache. I am old school and have been opposed to the DH for 44 years. Why on earth do the two major leagues playing the same game, baseball, have to have different rules.

Packer touchdowns should worth 6 points, but Patriot touchdowns should be worth 5 points.

Raise the basket to eleven feet for LeBron and lower it to nine feet for Curry. Curry is shorter after all.
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