What is next in 21st century card collecting

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

For some time now I've thought that paying someone else to tell me the grade of my own card was nuts. The idea of that is fundamentally wrong, to me. I understand that lots of folks here like it, some love it...

After reading pieces of the Bobby Binder thread I'm reminded that evidently some collectors today not only pay someone else to tell them the grade of their card (paragraph 1), but now also pay someone a fee each month so they can know what their card is worth... That seems ludicrous, too.

So what can be next? I'll tell you. If you need to know the identity and condition of your card (paragraph 1), and you need to know a value for your card (paragraph 2) it seems that the only remaining variable in collecting would be what to collect. Where are you Ted Z??? I think it is time that you and I, along with some other dinosaurs, offer a program, (for a monthly fee with some sort of monthly market report, too!) whereby we evaluate a collector's collection, identify weak areas, and make recommendations as to which cards to buy! That would complete the process.

New collectors could collect fearlessly. We'll tell you what to collect, SGC and PSA will tell you what it is you've collected, and some cardpriceonthenetdotcomknucklehead can tell you what it's worth. Collecting on autopilot! With all the worries removed!! Like cruise control. Like that parallel parking system... like a mutual fund where the fund manager makes the decisions.

Surely that is all that is left for this collecting century.


Realistically... I'd rather take the grading fees and the cardprice fees, and use them to buy more cards.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Is there any point where we have to pay to have someone insult us for how we collect? Or do we continue to get that for free?

-Al

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Posted By: Josh Adams

" not only pay someone else to tell them the grade of their card"

That is an extremely uneducated and uninformed statement. That's not the only reason people get cards graded. Yet, you continue to hound those who happen to like cards in plastic holders. Sorry you don't like it, but you don't need to keep pounding away at that point every single time.
I respect your collecting philosphy, try having some respect for others.

Al, I agree with you. Looks like it will be free.

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Jay

Frank--I know that some of your post is tongue in cheek but it may not be that far off. The formation of a fund that invests some portion of its proceeds in sportscards is basically what you have described. The fund buys cards that it deems to have a high likelihood of appreciation. It would undoubtedly only buy graded cards and it would help to have an independent third party to provide valuations. Not only is this possible but I bet we see it in the not too distant future. However, this has nothing to do with collecting.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

You don't like slabbed cards Frank? Wow, you learn something new every day.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

The truth is that I'm glad some folks collect graded cards. I can get a few graded and sell them for much more than they would have sold for otherwise... more card-buying money for me. So please do keep collecting them.

And, money spent on more expensive graded cards, and monthly card price services... that money can't be spent competing with my bids for regular old ungraded baseball cards.

But really guys, what else is left?

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Posted By: Brett

I kind of feel the same way. I don't understand why I should have to pay someome at PSA or SGC to tell me that my creased to hell card is in poor shape lol. Well, its different for me, because I mainly just collect cards. I'm not in it to make a quick buck because I actually like the cards i'm buying and not too worried about an investment. I just sold some cards on the BST to get rid of them, because i've decided to stop collecting a few sets and hope to get my money back on them. Although, if I can make a little money, theres no harm in it. For people who are in this business to make money, grading cards is the way to go. I'm not too fond of the grading companies just because of the inconsistencies in the grades and also because cards are getting graded when they look to be trimmed and cards that are restored are getting graded... really high. Also, just because 1 guy at PSA says my card is PSA 4, doesn't mean its right. Its just 1 guys opinion right ? I might crack it out and send it off to get graded again and it might come back a PSA 5. In the future, they should get some high tech computer to scan the card to find out it its been restored, if its the proper size and so forth and give it a proper grade. Also, if I drop a card thats been graded on the floor, the case might break and mess up the card. I like the top loaders with the penny sleeves. If I drop it on the floor, the card is fine I;m not trying to bash grading companies, like I said, i'm not in it for make money, so grading isn't my thing. If theres alot of typos its because i'm tired and i'm going to bed lol.

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Posted By: Larry

Jay, I think there was an investment market for cards a few years ago, but can't remember the name of it. You would pay for the current market value of a PSA graded card and they would hold it in your stock portfolio. I forget the name now. They had a website. Might be out of business now?

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Posted By: Dylan

If your statement is people should be more reliant on themselves instead of others, I can agree with that. I spent time to read on and study grading so that I could accuratly assess cards for sale. I also track auction data myself, without paying someone 10 dollars a month to do it for me. On the other hand much of the business done is over the internet thereby making 3rd party grading preferable to many buyers. I'm only able to see a scan(often times small and out of focus scans!) not hold the card and inspect it with my 30x loop. And considering cards are then sent through the mail system, i feel better about a card being in a slab(except some of psa's) then in what some sellers decide to ship their cards in.

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Posted By: David Smith

Uh, Frank, you left out the automatic withdrawal from your checking or savings account to pay the fees.

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Posted By: John

Frank,

Why does it bother you so much that some folks collect in their own way graded or what ever? And why do you assume or come off implying in almost every post that you and the other “Dinosaurs” are SO smart and the rest of the folks are knuckleheads???

Just curious……

Also before I start paying you a service fee to “tell” me what to collect I would like to make sure your up to par on everything if that’s ok?


http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1170862538/last-1171162277/My+T206+Plank+theory....New+Follow-up+info



My fav Frank quote to me..."At least you seem passionate about cards! Glad for that. Me thinks they're slabbed."

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Posted By: dennis

i think it's just hard for some people,who collected when there were no slabbers,to understand why people would only buy graded cards. they wonder. does this mean that these people would not have collected 20 years ago when the slab did not exist? why spend more $ on a graded card,when you can buy one raw and then have it graded? don't people like to hold a card w/o a holder as it was meant to be? don't cards look great in plastic pages in binders? think of all the money spent on slabs that could be used to buy more cards? it's a different world now. people don't buy albums or cd's they download their music. people play video games not board games. email? there are debit cards instead of checks? and some folks don't even have a land-line phone. wow,everybody has tatoos!(not just pirates and sailors?) for those of you who collect graded cards don't be offended by us dinosaurs set in our ways.just ignor us,there are things that can't be explained.

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Posted By: Dylan

I often like to buy raw cards. But buying raw cards doesnt work out if you want high grade examples these days. Before slabs im sure you could track down NM T206's and E cards but i almost never even see NM or better T206's for sale in raw form. Now I suppose you could bust it out of the slab but if you ever need to resell its bad news. After buying some Tobacco and candy cards in sgc holders and displaying them next to eachother i think they look awesome. A lot better then screwdowns. Plus there protected, so if you dont like it fine, but i'll take em slabbed and raw both

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Posted By: rand

If i added up all the grading fees & SMR subcriptions i have paid, i am sure i could buy an SGC 60 Goudey Ruth (which i do not own at the moment), but i like to see my cards in an organized list and compared to other sets. One thing that bugs me is when a large dealer shows scans of their raw cards and they are overgraded to psa standards and the selling prices are as high as graded cards. So no better off here.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Frank,

Grading came about not to tell people about the grade of their own cards, but to tell people about the grade of cards they were interested in purchasing. As is seen even today when auction houses sell raw cards and people complain about overgrading, there was a need to have some reasonably objective standard of grading so people could have confidence that what they were buying was in fact what was represented. In addition, grading gives collectors some degree of confidence the card was not altered (though on this one reasonable people can differ as to how much confidence).

For my collecting tastes, I prefer my cards to be ungraded. However, should I someday decide to sell, I know to maximize the price I will need to have them graded so prospective purchasers can hear from some objective third party that my cards are what I represent them to be.

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Posted By: Mike

This topic is tired and worn out. There are plenty of reasons that make sense on both sides of the issue. Can we discuss something else? I have some cards that are clothed, and some that are naked. For many different reasons. I don't have an intense hatred for either, nor an intense liking for either. There is a place for slabbed and unslabbed. For those that detest plastic, what is your price range, that you will go, without having one of your hated graders, check it for coloring, trimming, or a myriad of other problems. Would you pay $100k for a raw card? Just curious.

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Posted By: Steve f

This could be helpful, cuz I for one am all over the place and could use some *focus. Let me be the guinea pig!.. Frank, may I get a trial eval?

*It's obvious I need to concentrate on higher grades -that is a given.

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c327/oche16/

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Posted By: T206Collector

...I used to respect your position. I never had issues with your interest in collecting only raw cards, and I often take issues with those who buy the holder and not the card inside.

But your initial post is insulting and ignorant. It also fundamentally calls into question your ability to fairly and accurately understand the second side to a story.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Ever since the "famous" Wagner card was graded (13 years ago), this hobby has seen dramatic change.
And, there is no turning back. A whole new generation of collectors have entered the hobby who cannot,
in their wildest imaginations, fully appreciate how this hobby was prior to the "grading days".

During the 1970's and '80s, collectors enjoyed trading and buying sportscards without any concern (or
worry) whether a card was altered, trimmed, or otherwise tampered with; simply because......

(1) Condition conscious collectors were few....most collectors were into it for the pure enjoyment of it.
Mostly, to complete their favorite sets (or team sets) or acquire their favorite HOFers.

(2) An Ex T206 Cobb cost $50. so, who would waste their time to alter it, to gain another $10 in value.

But, nowadays with that same Cobb going for $2000....its human nature to be greedy. That inevitably
leads to the altering of cards. And, like it or not, Grading is no guarantee that you have a "clean" card.
Or even an "objectively" graded card......Are you really going to get a fair and objective grade of your
card if you are an infrequent submitter as compared to the big dealers ?
And, then you have the dilemna of what Grading Co. to submit your cards to, as a function of what
you think will get you bigger $$ when you sell.

This is the sad state of affairs that the grading phenomena has brought about. It has escalated prices
beyond the reach of the most collectors......and furthermore, no one trusts anyone, anymore when it
comes to BB card dealing.
This latter point is evident in your posts on a daily basis on this forum. Recently, I counted (on a full
page here) approx. 25% of the posts questioning, or alluding to concerns about altered cards.
I ask....what kind of pleasure from this hobby are you deriving, if most of your purchases cause you
this much worry ?

Frank....you, I and a few others are considered the "dinosaurs" on this forum for primarily collecting
cards that are ungraded. And, as long as there is all this present day "paranoia" engendered with
ungraded cards, our comments will never be understood.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

If anyone is impressed by the incredible growth in this hobby over the past decade, it is due primarily to the advent of professional grading. Take that out of the equation, and go back to the days of raw only, and the value of baseball cards would plummet.

Some might prefer that, others may not. But we would never have witnessed this dramatic growth without the slab. I stopped fighting it a long time ago.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Ted, your COMMENTS are understood. Perfectly. It's the insulting nature of Frank's repeated posts that are frustrating.

Frank writes - frequently - about how he wishes we could get back to just talking about the cards. And yet most of his posts don't relate to cards at all - they just relate to how stupid grading is. Here's a brand new thread, started by Frank, with the sole purpose of being insulting towards people who collect graded cards.

It has nothing to do with being a "dinosaur." There are plenty of long-timers in the hobby who are well-respected. Heck, to some people on this board I might even be a dinosaur, having been a collector for 25-30 years.

I understand and appreciate the way people choose to approach the hobby. There's a lot of stuff to collect, and a lot of different ways to do it. I've chosen to embrace grading for a variety of reasons - none of which relate to paranoia, and none of which relate to maximizing the value of my collection. I've embraced grading for two primary reasons: first, it makes it easier for me to feel confident buying cards over the internet, sight unseen. Second, I like the way cards display in the holder. There are some other, ancillary reasons as well, but those two are the main ones.

Ted, when you post about your T206 collections, and attempting sets with various backs, I can feel the enthusiasm, and it's infectious. Yesterday when you and I went back and forth about Tommy Henrich and Charlie Keller, I could read your passion for baseball, and it was great.

I wish I could feel that same passion in Frank's posts, because he clearly knows a lot about cards and I'm sure I could learn a thing or two. But instead, all I get from his posts is a condescending and insulting attitude about a supplemental part of the hobby that really has nothing to do with the cards whatsoever. It's frustrating and boring, and I'd avoid it if I could - but I can't. It seems like if I want to participate on this board, I'm going to need to deal with a daily diatribe from Frank Wakefield about how stupid I am.

And that bugs me.

-Al

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Posted By: boxingcardman

It already exists and has for quite some time. I know of a number of collectors who have advisors who help them determine what cards to compile, what to pay for them, etc. I happen to think it is a pretty decent idea. Why should someone with enthusiasm for collecting and the ability to spend big bucks have to take his lumps, so to speak, when he can get an expert to advise him? As is the case with grading and price help, there are some collectors for whom it is useful. As far as I am concerned, whatever gets them interested and keeps them interested, so long as they enjoy it and stay interested, is a good thing. Would I substitute someone else's judgment for mine: no. But I can see where someone would want help branching into a specialty like Zeenuts or boxing cards.

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Posted By: John

Ted,

I respectfully disagree. No one here is not getting your way of collecting Ted because of age barriers or hobby knowledge. In fact Ted you might be surprised on how similar our collecting knowledge and collecting habits are. The only reason I haven’t been collecting as long as you or Frank is I wasn’t born yet. But I have been at this for 22+ years so I’m not exactly new either.

The above comments that Frank made were not meant as advice, as much as they are bloated cheap shots towards others, for 2 guys who want us to get it already, you guys seem to have a hard time getting the other guys point of view. In fact I’ve seen more heat from your guys side of the camp towards the graded guys than vice versa.

I also don’t buy for a minute that in the 80’s nobody was ripping folks off, with trim jobs etc. Heck I collected in the late 80’s early 90’s there were plenty of folks out to make a buck buy being dishonest and that was just in my small town! So I’m sorry if I don’t buy this it was all rainbows and lollipops before the evil grading companies came along. The one thing I will give you is that grading companies were to suppose to resolve the issue of dishonesty and they have fallen very short of doing so, if they have done so at all. In many ways they have created more issues than before.

Best Regards,

John

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree with John that before professional grading trimmed cards were rampant, and so many people held onto these cards for years before they found out the bad news. I too love to reminisce about the old days, but buying altered cards is not one of the highlights.

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Posted By: John

Charlie Keller…I met them man multiple times as a kid as he lived in my small town, I have some pretty cool stories I can share Ted if your interested. Still have my 39 Playball, which he signed on the front porch of his home to me.

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Posted By: Aaron

I also remember the scams in the 80's. Remember the lists that were sold telling you what was in a wax/cello pack by looking at the card showing in the back or front. I recall problems with people resealing wax packs. I also remember people at shows walking around with rulers measuring their cards they purchased. There was definitely problems before third party grading came along.

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Posted By: Mike

I am uncertain as to what can be construed as a dinosaur. I'm 53. My wifes 100 year old grandmother, who recently passed away, thought I was a kid. Many of the cards I bought raw in the early 90's have since been deemed to be trimmed. Upon closer inspection, they were. One world series ticket from 1931, was repaired. Upon closer inspection, it was. I bought these when I was much younger and inexperienced. Several fairly high priced cards, were bought at the Chicago national, back in the early to mid ninties. Forget the exact year. "ALL" were bought from dealers who we all know by name, and personally. And are still around. I still have the receipts from these purchases. I will never know if they knew the items were tampered with. Maybe they did it themselves. Who knows. I chose not to pursure them, because I bought them in the ninties, and found out they were damaged, in 2003 or so. I submitted them to different graders and got the same results. How should I feel about this? I am not sure myself. Some would say I was scammed, others will say, it shouldn't matter, that I should love the cards regardless. That I should love the hobby, and cards enough to over look the tampering. Some will say I should have known better. Maybe. It is a debate that can be argued until the end of time. I slab them now, mostly for protection, so that i can take them places, and display, and show them to people. I have been in the hobby long enough, where I virtually always know the grade on a raw card if I buy it. I don't need anothers opinion as to the grade. I don't hate slabs, and I don't love slabs. They do however serve a purpose for me. I can always take them out if I like. It's not like they are prisoners for ever. Some will say I am a moron for slabbing them. Ask me if I care?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Mike- it's hard to love something you bought when you feel you were scammed. It leaves a bad taste for sure.

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Posted By: T206Collector

"And, as long as there is all this present day "paranoia" engendered with
ungraded cards, our comments will never be understood."

The "paranoia" is more justified now than ever. If you do not have a T206 Cobb in purportedly mint condition slabbed by PSA, SGC or GAI, then the presumption is that you are unable to have that card graded. Why else would you forego thousands of dollars for a $10 procedure?

The "paranoia" felt in the 1980's drove people out of the hobby.

The "paranoia" is best addressed by third party grading.

Your comments related to the halcyon days of raw cards are well understood; but your lack of understanding of the fundamental value of grading from a variety of perspectives, many of which celebrate the virtue of the vintage card collector, is fantastically and fanatically ignorant.

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Posted By: Mike

Right Barry. As I said, I can never know if I was scammed. It is a Tiny bit difficult for to believe that some the most respected and highly touted dealers in the country, didn't know they were selling trimmed cards. So the trimmed cards sit in my drawer. Some, I just dumped them cheaply to a dealer. I don't have a paranoid bone in my body. Paranoia has nothing to do with anything. It has more to with some folks selling me something, that I think is something else. I don't want to buy a Corvette, that has had major repair jobs, and not be told. I see no difference. I don't understand some peoples almost psychotic dislike of two pieces of plastic ? Each collect what they like.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I used to buy trimmed cards from some of the top dealers, too...and they knew.

And what's worse, I resold them many years later as it was still the era when we never even thought about trimming. As I look back, I'm sure I made a few unhappy customers.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Remember the SCD ads from the early and mid 90's of guys who used to sell nothing but Mint and NM/MT raw cards? I learned my lesson on those; virtually every one of them was either so obviously trimmed I could tell just from the size, or in cases where I wasn't sure was rejected by PSA when I later submitted them.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

as Mike makes mentions above of a corvette.......

When I go and buy a new car, do I drive it to determine if I like the experience??? YES. (eg. holding a card in my hand)
Do I estimate the value/quality of the manufacturer? YES. (eg. is it an issue I appreciate, for any and all reasons)
Do I look over the car at panel fit and finish, quality of plastics used, etc.. to decide if the car feels like a quality choice? YES. (eg. checking out a card under a loupe, or large scans to determine condition)

And then what do I do?
I go to third parties for opinions.
Car and Driver.
Consumer Reports.
Safety reports.
Resale reports.
Where the car finished in yearly awards given by the Driving Expert community based on a wide, wide set of variables.

And then I make my decision.
So, even if I love a car in person, how it drives, etc.., I still won't buy it if I feel people with even greater expertise than I have judge it to be a poor choice.

And its a WISE, WISE choice to do so.

So, with something with such a smaller set of variables like cardboard I'll take a chance if the item is in hand, and I can run over my checklist to establish its worth.
If the card resides somewhere else, in private hands or Auction House, then give me a third party opinion every night and day - even where I was to disagree with it, to help me wisely allocate my families scarce resources.
SGC are the only company i trust completely (even understanding they will make mistakes occasionally) to help me in this process.

And that too, is not a knucklehead position.


Daniel

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Golly....

At least it is a thread that isn't about soap opera stuff...


Although some won't believe it, my intent was NOT to malign folks who collect graded cards. It seems that some guys, perceiving my thoughts on grading, think that anytime I mention grading or slabbing that it is a slam on everyone who has a graded card. That's not what I said up there.


My post was about what is next, from the perspective of seeing a guy ask about "which spreadsheet software" only to be told about some cardpricerdotcompaysomuchamonth thing, that I don't understand (and am content with remaining ignorant about it). The guy's question was about software, and out comes a sales pitch.

Seeing that folks are subscribing to such services, I do wonder what is next. And I still do.

I love analogies. I use them to often myself in explaining matters. But actually, nothing is like anything else.

I once bought a car sight unseen, not knowing a color, make, model... nothing at all. My good car was in the shop, I'd wrecked it, my junker car was struggling, and my Dad, a car dealer, told me as I was walking through the showroom with parts for my struggler, that he had a car he thought would be good for me. I slowed stride and asked how much, he told me, and I said I'd buy it as I walked back into the shop. He prepared the paperwork and brought it to me, I walked it over to the clerk's office to transfer title (about a block, small town), and returned with the car in my name. He handed me keys as I returned, I then asked what it was and where it was. It was a green Dodge Charger SE, I think it was a 1974 model. 318 V8. My grandfather was a car dealer, too. And great granddad, too. His cars came crated, and he had to assemble them upon arriving by rail. Wooden spoked wheels... Grand Dad and Dad sold Buicks and Dodges.

Most folks wouldn't buy a car like that. I've bought baseball cards like that... Sent money without seeing the cards. But I knew who I was dealing with, and knew I could get deals undone if I so desired. I agree that 3rd party grading helps sell cards on eBay when a buyer doesn't know the seller.

My post was a bit of a slam at these dotcomcardvalueguys. And it was designed to have an "on topic" post that would get some fired up responses, following Leon's post about "off topic" posts.

So really, guys. What is next?

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Posted By: T206Collector

...suggested a downward spiral of Orwellian proportions for graded card collectors -- that we were all mindless lemmings looking for the next way to get further removed from the pure joy of collecting.

I do think there is value in asking what the next paradigm shift (after third party grading) will be. But that is not how your initial post was written.

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Posted By: Brian

"Ever since the "famous" Wagner card was graded (13 years ago), this hobby has seen dramatic change."


Almost every aspect of life has changed since 1994.




Frank, you seem to have a reactionary bent.

re·ac·tion·ar·y (rē-ăk'shə-nĕr'ē)
adj.
Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I've actually been thinking about it alot lately, and I personally would love to see a return to packaging cards with non-related product.
Could be food, candy, washing liquid, really wouldn't matter, but doing so would return alot of the 'fun' to the buying and discovery part of the equation. It would also return condition rarity as a factor because cards wouldn't arrive in perfectly packaged foil and boxes.
I also would appreciate todays sporting institutions (eg.mlb) that farm out the rights to producing cards, to insist on limits on the number of issues a manufacturer can create in any one year. Again, this just might recreate interest and desire in todays collecting youth and adult alike.


Daniel

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Frank, when you want to buy shares of GE do you just offer whatever you feel they are worth? Or do you check the last price and bid accordingly?

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Posted By: Steve M.

nolemmings here. (Hi Todd )

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Posted By: Mike Snyder

I regard this shift as a change in paradigm for the hobby. Much as the way technology has changed the workplace, the home, travel, etc. it has caught up with trading card collecting. Its value created a value-added that has really overwhelmed the hobby, as can be inferred from these posts.

For me, considering the cost of better quality cards, I am happy that there is some form of grading. It would be good if there were only one superior grading service but 2 is OK for now.

The fall of GAI from the industry is a good thing. I believe in the survival of the fittest.

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Posted By: Steve M.

Did I miss something?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

At the risk of some of these guys thinking that you and I are some "one-two punch" regarding
"grading"....I fully understood your initial post. And, it is a good question....."what's next" ?

Unfortunately, instead of getting some positve answers to your question, it's mostly gone negative.
Somehow it has been misinterpreted by some. And, I'm not even going to try to understand that.
After all, I have been referred to as a "dinosaur"; and, I've learned to wear that title as a "badge of
honor".

But, now I have been described with the following remarks.....

"......fantastically and fanatically ignorant".

H'mmmm...."fanatic".....that's a strong word.

I wonder what my three lovely Grandchildren would think....if they heard someone describe their
Grandfather as a "fanatic" ?

It's derogatory remarks like these, that I find offensive on this board.....and, I do not hear them
coming from members who are in the "ungraded school of thought".

TED Z

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Posted By: JimB

Ted said,

"Condition conscious collectors were few....most collectors were into it for the pure enjoyment of it."

I guess condition conscious folks like Lionel Carter were not into it for the pure enjoyment. I bet that would be a surprise to him.

Will the real dinausor please stand up?

I started going to shows in 1979 and I can vouch for the fact that there were condition conscious collectors back then. Of course it was different from now. But condition awareness is not something new in the hobby.
JimB

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Posted By: Cobby33

With no undue respect to anybody- try paying over $1,000 for a bunch of fake cards. Then, maybe one will have a better appreciation for graded cards.

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Posted By: T206Collector

But please, let us not forget that my posts are entirely in response to Frank's initial post that claimed those who collect graded cards lack the capacity for individual thought and emotion. I will not sit idly by reading the posts of the ignorant and, above all, rude.

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Posted By: leon

At the risk of making this a 3 person chatboard I understood Frank's initial post and took it the way I believe he meant it to be. I know he (Hi Frank) speaks better than I do but what I think he meant was "what's next?" in regards to the fact that we have so many things to help us in collecting one need not learn about the cards or the history anymore. It can all be done for you....except the beer drinking .....And that can't be replaced....

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Posted By: T206Collector

...I purchased on ebay an ungraded T206 card signed by Fred Snodgrass. It came with an index card that had a note from Sno describing how he was once a catcher and that the correspondent should look for the Glory of Their Times in the next year. It is, to me, an amazing piece of baseball history, especially for the T206 collector.

I will have the card and letter submitted to JSA/SGC for authentication, and will then share the card on SGC's website for others to enjoy.

The suggestion that my collecting practices are mindless is offensive to me. And, regardless of how many times I read Frank's initial post, it is very hard for me to understand it as a neutral question. Instead, I can only read it as wondering what other heartless practices or technologies are going to be engendered by 21st Century collectors.

But, perhaps the most frustrating thing about Frank's or Ted's posts in this regard is that they do not acknowledge the power their posts have to insult. Instead, when others are insulted by their initial posts, our responses -- and ultimately, our perceptions as to how we read the comments -- are viewed as the problem. There is no room for recognizing the underlying cause of the issue.

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Posted By: John

Why does it always have to be a graded or un-graded thing here with you guys?? Why mention it at every turn does it keep you guys up at night or something??? I just don’t get it.

Ted I don’t think its all that bad, but the picture you paint looks something like this.





Leon, you're telling me you don’t see any digs or shots at sarcasm in Frank’s post above, heck I don’t even really collect graded cards and could read between the lines on that one.

Barry noted we are very sorry, by we I mean me...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Would everybody please learn that "your telling me" is spelled "you're telling me". If one more person spells "you're" incorrectly Jeff Lichtman and I will have your collective heads.

Thank you.

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Posted By: Josh Adams

I agree with Paul. Very well put.


"After reading pieces of the Bobby Binder thread I'm reminded that evidently some collectors today not only pay someone else to tell them the grade of their card (paragraph 1), but now also pay someone a fee each month so they can know what their card is worth... That seems ludicrous, too."

Frank, you write this in your initial post, seemingly in an effort to spark a conversation about where collecting is heading. However, you give a backhanded slight to those who prefer cards in plastic holders. Everyone on here knows your preference for non-graded cards (we all know you say it enough). That's fine. I respect your choice, and far be it from me to tell someone else how to collect. It's a hobby, it is supposed to be FUN. Each person here inteprets FUN a seperate way.

However, after your initial post, your whole "golly, gee whiz, I wasn't trying to slam anyone" is, well, not believable. Your choice of words are loaded, and down right demeaning. "some collectors pay someone to tell them the grade." The implication is that collectors who buy slabbed cards are morons. I'm sure that is news to alot of people who have their card stored in PSA, SGC, GAI, etc. holders. If you can't see how your word choice is inflammatory, I suggest a book on style and composition.

How about this. Try to have a little understanding for other people's collecting tastes. Heck, I don't really care how other people collect, but when someone starts insulting me for my choices in a hobby, i.e., an escape from the everyday, well that is just foolish.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not ever remember anyone on here slamming you for your preference for raw cards. I wish the reverse were true.

Everyone, HAVE FUN!!

Josh

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!