Pre-war cards: SGC 10 vs SGC Authentic or PSA 1 vs. PSA Authentic

[tbob]

I have wondered about this for a while. I know this is tad general as the authetic might be for a slight trim and a 10 (or 1) may have nice eye appeal but back problems, but I wanted to get the board's take.

Ive never posted a poll (help leon!) but I wondered if you would rather:

a) Always take a 10 or 1 over an authentic card,
b) Always take an authentic over a 10 or 1,
c) Take a 10 or 1 with nice eye appeal but back damage or slight creasing over an authentic, or,
d) Take an authentic card over a 10 or 1 if the authentic card appears to be a 40 or 50 (4 or 5) but has a slight trim over a 10 (or 1)?

[4815162342]

Wonka's Franken-plank from a few years back aside, I'm not a fan of AUT cards. I wish not to support the card doctoring business by knowingly purchasing altered cards.

[vintagerookies51]

It depends on the condition of the Authentic one. If it looks like a 4 or 5 but is just trimmed, I would rather have a 10 or 1. If the Authentic card is just really beat up, I would prefer this. Personally, I like beat up cards- they showed that someone loved them in the past and they're cheaper!

[Ronnie73]

If a card is trimmed, it should always be in an authentic grade only. I perfer psa 1's over sgc 10's and psa 1's and sgc 10's over authentic. Sgc 10's can have alot of paper loss compared to psa 1's which don't allow as much paper loss.

[barrysloate]

1) A nice looking 1 is a very collectable card.

2) A 1 with multiple creases is ugly and needs to be upgraded.

3) An AUTH that looks nice because it was trimmed is not a valid example, unless it's an extremely rare and expensive card.

That doesn't answer your question exactly but is in the ballpark.

[ullmandds]

Where's the poll?

i like Barrys synopsis!!!!

[barrysloate]

Much obliged.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

1) A nice looking 1 is a very collectable card.

2) A 1 with multiple creases is ugly and needs to be upgraded.

3) An AUTH that looks nice because it was trimmed is not a valid example, unless it's an extremely rare and expensive card.

That doesn't answer your question exactly but is in the ballpark.

I think a lot of people, me included, would take a very nice EXMT-NRMT looking card that is slightly trimmed in an AUT holder over a bicycle spoke card in a one holder. (so that would be D to Bob's question)

[djrhanover]

I'd choose letter "c" nearly every time. A card with nice eye appeal and a numbered grade. I'd also prefer SGC because it contributes to that eye appeal much better, in my opinion, than PSA.

[barrysloate]

I know they would. I meant that's the way I would collect if I were buying vintage cards. Some guys love beaters and trimmed cards and I didn't want to create the impression that I was an ultra elitist.

[tbob]

Finally got the poll up

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tbob

Finally got the poll up

TMI (oh, you said "poll")

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Leon

TMI (oh, you said "poll")

Yes... I sure hope he spelled that correctly.

[HRBAKER]

You forgot the other option,

5.) Take a trimmed card that says "8" or "9" on the holder

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

Yes... I sure hope he spelled that correctly.

Yup, no problem with the pole

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

You forgot the other option,

5.) Take a trimmed card that says "8" or "9" on the holder

people already carving out a Honus Wagner psa 8 exception to the rule before this post just came out and said it.

[rman444]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

3) An AUTH that looks nice because it was trimmed is not a valid example, unless it's an extremely rare and expensive

Not a valid example? Ouch! That's rough, Barry.

[skelly]

I know this will be the minority, but I'd rather just put a poor card in an authentic holder even if it hasn't been altered. I just feel that Auth sounds better than poor. Just my take. Generally if it's going to grade below vg, I just tell SGC to put the card in an Auth. holder.

[joeadcock]

Very slight trim is ok with me also in authentic holder if nice looking. I'm ok with low grade cards also.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by rman444

Not a valid example? Ouch! That's rough, Barry.

I've never been a fan of trimmed cards. Of course they all look good- they were trimmed to fool people. I know some collectors do like them, and that's fine.

[HRBAKER]

I'm not a fan of them either, both the one's I know I have
and the one's I don't. The trouble with 10s/1s is they aren't
created equal. Rather have a slight trim than a rag.

[pcoz]

There's some black paper spots from a notebook on the back that accounts for the A, but the 10 is the definition of a beater. I'm happier having the A. I'd rather have a numerical grade like most, but I'd rather have a beautiful image than a 10 if I have a hard time seeing the image.

[Taxman]

Small pin hole..no back damage..Picked up at the National with the help of Leon and a guy in his booth that was as big as the Hulk.

[g_vezina_c55]

Always take a 10 or 1 over the auth card.

[square5000]

I understand the issues with some Authentic cards, that some were trimmed to deceive, but, for some collectors, including myself, the Authentic label means I have a shot at owning a card that would be out of my reach in even Fair condition.

I would not have been able to afford these cards if they were not in Authentic slabs (or formerly in Authentic slabs):




Peter Baldes

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by square5000

I understand the issues with some Authentic cards, that some were trimmed to deceive, but, for some collectors, including myself, the Authentic label means I have a shot at owning a card that would be out of my reach in even Fair condition.

I would not have been able to afford these cards if they were not in Authentic slabs (or formerly in Authentic slabs):




Peter Baldes

Beautiful cards Peter, I'd take those over a beater any day.

[tbob]

There are some authentic cards in my collection, primarily those which are almost unobtainable in any condition because of their scarcity. I also, though, have a few caramel cards which are authentic but gorgeous and it is really tough to detect if they have been trimmed, but are in SGC authentic holders. I prefer them over beaters any day. That said, I would take an SGC 10 or 20 with a beautiful front and small back damage over an authentic card, obviously.

[dog*dirt]

I also do not mind back damage or writing or authentic for most of my cards. The reason is that I like to display some cards in my house which a lot of friends and family have seen and because...

1. There has not been anybody who has asked me to see the back on any of my cards.

2. The question of "is that card trimmed" has never came up when visitors are here.

3. Most important is that I like the cards and can live with their condition.

The Moran has a pinhole and is a recent pick up.

[Paul S]

I couldn't find an answer in the poll that suited me.
About 1969 -- long before TPGers -- I picked up two Topps rookies: Clemente and Koufax. I got them for about a dime apiece -- yes, it's true. (I'm 59 now -- do the math). Both were trimmed, likely cut to fit somehow into someone's album, unless the factory accidentally cut them that way, and ungraded. I didn't even know or care they were/are rookie cards, few people did. And, I didn't even know or care about trimming at the time: I just wanted the cards. I love them, "..and yes, (Barry), they ARE spectacular!" Glossy as well.

Edited to add: I know my post is not within the exact point of the poll, but really, there are alternatives.

[JSteele]

I've been lurking for a while and will do a formal introduction soon. I don't intend to derail this thread, but have a novice question...

I seem to understand "trimmed" as a term used to describe a card that was deliberately altered to improve the condition, but what about cards that have been cut because a fool (no polite way to say it) cut the top (or bottom) to fit them into a plastic sleeve?

I have recently acquired several cards that appear to have been carelessly cut with scissors. These are not straight cuts and I'm certain they were not done with any regard to "improving" the card appearance, but only to fit them into a holder.

What is the term you would use to describe these cards, other than "junk"?

~Jonathan

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by JSteele

I've been lurking for a while and will do a formal introduction soon. I don't intend to derail this thread, but have a novice question...

I seem to understand "trimmed" as a term used to describe a card that was deliberately altered to improve the condition, but what about cards that have been cut because a fool (no polite way to say it) cut the top (or bottom) to fit them into a plastic sleeve?

I have recently acquired several cards that appear to have been carelessly cut with scissors. These are not straight cuts and I'm certain they were not done with any regard to "improving" the card appearance, but only to fit them into a holder.

What is the term you would use to describe these cards, other than "junk"?

~Jonathan

Welcome to the fray.....You answered your own queston. I don't think there is any special term for it

[tbob]

Jonathan, back in the day card collectors who wanted to proudly display their caramel pre-war cards sometimes trimmed them to fit in to the tobacco card holders in plastic sheets. Some caramel cards are slightly bigger than tobacco cards so you might see an E90-1 or E98 with a slight trim which was made, not to fool or deceive a prospective buyer, but rather because collectors naively didn't realize the impact of taking scissors or now, lasers, to the cards.
Of course you also have many PSA 8s and 9s which are identical to
"authentic" cards, but that's been discussed on many a thread.