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  #901  
Old 11-16-2017, 08:30 AM
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I know this is getting in beating a dead horse territory, but I have a Q on the 69 Perry. I think I have 6 of the 8 known possibles, but my Q for the print experts is how did it occur that both the YN and WN versions have have all 3 variants ( blue line front and partial or major distortion of number on back) ?
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  #902  
Old 11-16-2017, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I know this is getting in beating a dead horse territory, but I have a Q on the 69 Perry. I think I have 6 of the 8 known possibles, but my Q for the print experts is how did it occur that both the YN and WN versions have have all 3 variants ( blue line front and partial or major distortion of number on back) ?
Check out what Steve said in post #882.
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  #903  
Old 11-16-2017, 06:22 PM
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I did see that and can understand the 3 different backs showing up on both the YN and WN, but seems weird both would also have the blue streak front.
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  #904  
Old 11-16-2017, 06:58 PM
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I imagine the actual layout of the Perry card was unchanged (and perhaps the two versions, with and without the blue streak, simply appeared in different places on the print sheet) between the white letter and yellow letter versions, because the absence of a color wasn't caused by editing the physical layout of the cards. Or it's possible the Perry cards were exactly the same in layout, but something occurred during the the printing of the cyan layer and the blue splotch appeared?
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  #905  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:07 PM
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2 more, how would you describe these variants? I've looked at a lot of vintage cards but have never seen anything like the Fregosi... The other '61 has a "streak" what do you call that? Those I think are much more common.
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  #906  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:12 PM
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That Fregosi has a Jay Johnstone wet sheet transfer on it...or the two cards were once stuck together and ripped apart??
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  #907  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
I imagine the actual layout of the Perry card was unchanged (and perhaps the two versions, with and without the blue streak, simply appeared in different places on the print sheet) between the white letter and yellow letter versions, because the absence of a color wasn't caused by editing the physical layout of the cards. Or it's possible the Perry cards were exactly the same in layout, but something occurred during the the printing of the cyan layer and the blue splotch appeared?
The latter is probably very close.

69 Topps had a fairly complex layout, with different a and B sheets, and some doubleprints. (actually double prints and triple prints, a fine distinction)
So some cards have 3 positions, and most have 2.

Each color should be taken on its own, so the WN/YN is a change in the Yellow, but the Blue mark is a change to Cyan*.

So one of the positions could have had a fault in the Cyan layer, that they didn't fix. When they fixed the Yellow layer the new set of plates would have the fixed yellow, but still have one position with the unrepaired Cyan.
At the craziest not likely, but possible - A first set of plates gets made with a good cyan layer but a bad yellow layer. The cyan mask gets damaged, and later the yellow layer is fixed and new plates are made. Still later the blue is fixed, and the yellow is still fixed, resulting in three versions, two of which are very hard to tell apart. (Or mix in a hand done fix for the blue mark, which would be a pretty rare thing)

Think that can't happen? I just went through the 49 leaf set, and found three -four major changes, plus transitional cards. And that's just in a month or so of looking seriously for the different varieties on Ebay.

*It can also be a change in any or all the other colors, I'd have to see a high res scan or have one in hand to be sure. That would indicate a problem on the pasteup that got fixed.
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  #908  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for input Steve. Would you classify the WN v YN cards print defects or variations ? Same Q for 58 Y v Ws. I guess it would depend in part on what definition of a variation is assumed
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  #909  
Old 11-17-2017, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
That Fregosi has a Jay Johnstone wet sheet transfer on it...or the two cards were once stuck together and ripped apart??
My guess is that they were once stuck together. Does not seem likely that a wet sheet transfer could have occurred as these 2 cards were not part of the same series.
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  #910  
Old 11-18-2017, 07:21 AM
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My guess is that they were once stuck together. Does not seem likely that a wet sheet transfer could have occurred as these 2 cards were not part of the same series.
Agreed, that is not a wet sheet transfer. Has to be cards stuck together due to moisture during storage through the years.
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  #911  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Thanks for input Steve. Would you classify the WN v YN cards print defects or variations ? Same Q for 58 Y v Ws. I guess it would depend in part on what definition of a variation is assumed
I'd call those variations. And to me they're closer to what most people would call variations than a lot of what I keep as variations.

For the Y/Ws it's pretty clear that the yellow layer was set up wrong, and corrected. I suppose some could stretch that to say that setting the plate up wrong is a print error, but I think that runs afoul of stuff that's even more clear like the 79 Bump Wills.

My definition of a variation is really a loose one. I count anything that appears to be caused by a difference on the plate, or a clear difference in the cardstock or ink. Most of those differences are probably unintentional, I can't imagine the UV reactive backs on late 80's early 90's Topps were intentional.
Considering the range of stuff I'll set aside as "different" trying to determine intent is a rabbit hole I just don't choose to go down.

I do also save stuff that's obviously related to some production issue, either in printing, cutting packing, or even in the manufacture of the cardstock. I've got a card that has what I'd call a massive inclusion, something manufactured into the cardstock that's about half as big as a watermelon seed.

So
Registration problems
fisheyes
Inking problems
cardboard flaws
Die cut on the wrong end, or with the wrong pattern
All those go in the printing mistakes box

Cutting guidelines
Different screening
Die cuts that shouldn't have been obvious(88 score)
Different holograms
Marks from scratches on the plate
Consistent stray marks (not caused by ink spatter)
Printed on a different sort of cardstock (mostly 69 and 70 Topps)
All those go in the main set as variations.

A few can be hard to decide, like if one color foil should have been used but a different color was. Technically an error, so I'd file it there. Which may seem to contradict the placing different holograms as variations, but the different holograms were often a difference between series. (Like one hockey year where the main set has one hologram, but the update set was packed with low # cards and all of them had the next years hologram)

And yes, it's about as confusing as it can be. That's one of the reasons I don't get worked up about the variation/not a variation question.
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  #912  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:13 AM
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Thanks as always for your input Steve. My definition is more narrow but as you know I collect recurring print oddities whatever they are, and agree the 69s and 58s could involve intentional changes in the printing process either way.

Not sure if we did this one. The one on the bottom left is pretty tough. The slight differences on this one remind me of those on the font of the 55 Sullivan (106) and 56 Pepper ( 103), and the back of the 56 Schmidt (322)

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  #913  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:49 PM
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Here is another example of a variant, that has slight differences, that could be considered a progressive variant like Al's 55 Elliot card. With the 1972 Topps 534 Hickman card, the known variation is the example with no green on the team name. In looking, I found a few examples that have just a very light green instead of only the yellow.

What I find interesting is that no other cards (at least none that are known) from this series have a similar color variation to them. Not sure what caused this progressive variation to occur(on this card only), but my guess is Steve would be able to help explain the cause.
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  #914  
Old 11-22-2017, 05:44 PM
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Some people call the #607 Frank Duffy card a variation due to the coloring differences in the shadowy areas of the team name, relatively similar to the Hickman you illustrated above. What I found was on the print sheet there were multiple Duffy cards represented, and one of them had the much lighter shadowing on it--although all the other coloring and all of the other cards looked perfectly fine. So it seems to have been an 'error' in the actual layout of the cards and not some freakish anomaly in the printing process. I'm wondering if the Hickman variation was created in the same manner.
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  #915  
Old 11-28-2017, 02:21 PM
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Acouple of defects similar to the one Patrick posted of Lee Maye

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  #916  
Old 12-03-2017, 01:36 PM
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This print variation, caused by a color shift, is the Yankee logo on the cap appearing green instead of white. I could only find this copy.
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  #917  
Old 12-03-2017, 04:05 PM
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That's an interesting one; the red and black passes are registered, but the blue and yellow (make green!) passes are both mis-registered to the right the same amount.

Actually gives it a pretty cool 3-D affect to the face.
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  #918  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:23 AM
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More fun with colors.
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  #919  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:39 AM
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Thomas-- now you need one showing him as right hander
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  #920  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:35 PM
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The 1969 Gaylord Perry train keeps a rollin'...I think. At least it's possible it does.

In looking at some more Perry cards (not mine), I noticed some have a thin bolt of electricity emanating from his hat into the sky. You can see it pretty clearly to the right of the SF logo on the card to the left. So I started looking to see if all of the back number variations we were talking about come with and without this anomaly on front.

1969perryantenna485.jpg

The card on the right doesn't have this bolt, but...it may in fact actually be there, only not as electrified, and perhaps just a dull bluish line that blends into the sky?? I'm not sure. So I say check your Perry cards again and see if it appears. (The versions posted earlier in this thread seem to have something there.) If there's clearly no lightning bolt there, please post a scan/pic of it.
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  #921  
Old 12-05-2017, 06:59 AM
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This shows how far the sickness can go. Now we are looking for cards with nothing there.

If the bolt exits in different forms, or exists on some cards but not others, and exists in both yellow and white, and on each kind of back, how many versions are possible

I have 7 of the 8 I thought I was looking for, now have to check them for bolts

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  #922  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
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Thomas-- now you need one showing him as right hander
I am gullible but wonder if there IS a right-handed version out there, which I doubt.
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  #923  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
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I am gullible but wonder if there IS a right-handed version out there, which I doubt.
Unlike the 55 Bowman Littlefield card, the 82 Fleer Littlefield card offers the opportunity to collect both a right and left handed version.
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  #924  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:17 AM
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Sorry Thomas, bad joke reference to this one...Opps, Larry beat me to it



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  #925  
Old 12-09-2017, 08:59 AM
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Here are 3 versions of 1974 Topps Fergie Jenkins #87. The left (top sky lines) and center cards (left side blue "snow") are recurring and the right card is the common.

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  #926  
Old 12-18-2017, 06:32 PM
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Default 75

Hi, guys. Enjoy the thread. Any ideas on this Robin Yount and what variant you would call it? Thinking just missing ink, right? Have you seen other '75s like this or '75 Younts? sHoping your answer is "sun fading" but methinks the one area of orange makes it not the case.
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  #927  
Old 12-18-2017, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
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Hi, guys. Enjoy the thread. Any ideas on this Robin Yount and what variant you would call it? Thinking just missing ink, right? Have you seen other '75s like this or '75 Younts? sHoping your answer is "sun fading" but methinks the one area of orange makes it not the case.
If I had to guess, I'd say that card was in the sun for a long time, and that curved rectangular area was due to a price sticker being affixed to the holder it was in.
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  #928  
Old 12-18-2017, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
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If I had to guess, I'd say that card was in the sun for a long time, and that curved rectangular area was due to a price sticker being affixed to the holder it was in.
Yep, sun fading with a price sticker over it. Not a variation, just damaged.
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  #929  
Old 12-19-2017, 05:43 AM
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There is a recurring print defect or variance of this card. Copies posted on page 1 of this this thread.
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  #930  
Old 12-19-2017, 10:10 AM
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Of course, for 75's there's this one.



No sign of fading anywhere but the photo area. And pulled from a commons box, so if it was selectively faded, that's a bit of work for maybe 10 cents.

There must be more of them, I just haven't seen any.
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  #931  
Old 12-19-2017, 11:13 PM
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I had never seen the Mazzilli or the Revering before but I knew they had to exist because they were next to the Niekro and the Clark on the 1980 D*uncut sheet. I found both of them recently on eBay. I can't remember if the Jones and the Vail from the 1980 B* uncut sheet have been mentioned here before, but it has the same flaw as the Niekro-Mazzilli.
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  #932  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:42 PM
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Default Yount

Thanks for the responses on the Yount, I think you are dead on. But what about these two? The Butkus has a dark strip near bottom, so not a sticker/sun fade issue on this? Missing ink? Thanks!
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  #933  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:04 PM
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Same as the Yount, sitting in a sports card store glass display case faded by sunlight. They both have the rectangle in the upper right corner where the price tag protected the small area from sunlight fading. Apparently both cards had the bottom edge covered by another card or something else that shielded the sunlight.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:21 PM
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Default print variations

Lil some for ya




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  #935  
Old 01-03-2018, 07:53 AM
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Lil some for ya


Is the Murray handcut?
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:13 AM
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Is the Murray handcut?
All of the 1979 Topps baseball with 1978 backs were either handcut or or more professionally cut by a third party well after 1979. They were only made as a practice run in 1979 with left over 1978 backs and were never meant to be distributed but some of the sheets made it out the backdoor.
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  #937  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:17 AM
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Thank you Cliff, as always, spot on input.

Besides the 73 Topps with the wacky backs, how many other Topps issues from the 70s-90s can be found with a different issue on the back due to scraps getting out the back door? I have one of the 91 Topps cards with a baseball front and a FB back, but was not sure what other years may have something like this.
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  #938  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:11 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
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I forget which year, but there were baseball backs with non-sticker mork and mindy sticker fronts.

There were also 78 baseball backs inside bazooka boxes
and black hole card backs inside bazooka boxes.
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  #939  
Old 01-03-2018, 08:07 PM
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Cliff Bowman Cliff Bowman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
I forget which year, but there were baseball backs with non-sticker mork and mindy sticker fronts.
They were also 1978.

Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 01-03-2018 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Grammar
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  #940  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:02 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Thanks Cliff.

I have one or two, but I was too lazy to go find them.

The 79front/78 backs were originally sold by a dealer I think from the Baltimore area, in strips. What I heard was that they knew where Topps printer dumped trash, and had a bit of a find one day being there at the same time as the truck that had Topps stuff.
I have a strip I ordered back then, not sure where it is but I know I didn't cut it. It got a bit squashed in shipping, put me off mailorder for a few years.

Topps must have had a ton of leftover 78back only sheets.

Steve B
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  #941  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:03 PM
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Found this limited, but recurring print variant on the 69 455 Siebert card. Above the first "I" in Indians there is what appears to be a pen mark, but it is indeed a recurring mark. This is another variant that looks much more obvious in hand.
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File Type: jpg 69 455.jpg (79.5 KB, 238 views)
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  #942  
Old 01-10-2018, 10:07 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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Default 67 Siebert

Larry---had not seen that one. I do have the one with a blue line to right of the bill of his cap, one with a broken spot in that same "I", and one with a reddish brown color between his legs. Isakur has the first two of those up on ebay now
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  #943  
Old 01-10-2018, 02:12 PM
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Cliff Bowman Cliff Bowman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Larry---had not seen that one. I do have the one with a blue line to right of the bill of his cap, one with a broken spot in that same "I", and one with a reddish brown color between his legs. Isakur has the first two of those up on ebay now
Different year, that one is the 1967 . Same photo, though.
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  #944  
Old 01-10-2018, 03:23 PM
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My Bad

Even worse, in checking my set I have that one. I need a "normal" one

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 01-10-2018 at 03:43 PM.
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  #945  
Old 01-10-2018, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
Different year, that one is the 1967 . Same photo, though.
I thought I was losing my mind looking at other 69s looking for these other variations, being a 67 explains why I was not finding them?!?!
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  #946  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:10 PM
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I would like to say I was just being devious rather than stupid....but
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  #947  
Old 01-15-2018, 09:59 AM
Sliphorn Sliphorn is offline
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Default 1957 #75 Piersall

I noticed on two of my versions of this card that there is a little red line to the left side from his right ear down to the left margin. Obviously it is recurring and common to find.
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  #948  
Old 01-15-2018, 02:54 PM
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Also have one with red dot to to left and below ear

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  #949  
Old 01-16-2018, 03:56 PM
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Red at bottom ?

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  #950  
Old 01-16-2018, 05:50 PM
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J0hn Raff3rty
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That's probably just a misaligned sheet going to the magenta plate.
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Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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