T206 colors missing scraps versus issued cards

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Posted By: Damian

Recently there have been a couple of threads in regards to T206 printing errors in which some or most of the color in the lithograph process was missing. I have two right now one is a Seymour that PSA holdered as authentic and trimmed that is missing most of the color and a Baker that PSA graded a 1 due to some slight paper loss on the back that has more color but is still missing a significant amount. I believe the Seymour to be trimmed because it was cut from scrap. I am not positive, it just seems logical. My question is does anyone know or have opinions as to whether color missing T206's that were cut from scrap or more common that cards that were actually issued and have colors missing? It would seem to me that there would be more from scrap as they were likely caught by quality control and never made it into cigarette backs, but were taken home by employees and cut or dug out of the trash and cut. This of course could all be wild speculation on my part or is there another side to the coin I am missing making scrap cards tougher than issued cards. Anyone?

Damian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I am not old enough to have acquired T-cards back in 1910 (although
some on this Forum consider me a "dinosaur"). However, as a kid who
bought 5 cent Gum packs in the 1949 (both Bowmans and Leafs), I did
open up packs which had cards with color errors. In fact, I still have
some of them.

The same 4 - color printing process that was used to print T-cards (1909-
1916) was the same as it was in 1949. Therefore, based on this fact, I
would not be surprised if T206 color errors (factory cut to size) were
inserted in Tobacco packs. And, indeed I think we have seen factory-cut
errors posted on this Forum.

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Posted By: Mark

I believe most of them I have seen were hand cut scraps, and very poorly cut at that. However, I have seen two or three that I believe to be factory cut, including a card of Davis I sold on ebay recently. It was also somewhat oversized top to bottom.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Damian- you are correct that more cards with missing colors came from printer's scrap. All the sheets that made it to the scrap heap got there because of some printing malfunction, such as missing ink. However, cards that made it into circulation should have had one step of quality control, and therefore errors should have been pulled. Obviously, a few will always get by. Scrap heaps don't get quality control. They get tossed.

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Posted By: Damian

Barry,

Based upon your response do you think production (non-scrap) missing color variations carry a heavier premium or is it to subtle of a difference to collectors for the most part?

Damian

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's hard to generalize, as some collectors don't care how the card is cut, but I would say one that looks more like a regularly issued card that might even qualify for a holder would be better than one that is clearly handcut. You might get other opinions.

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Posted By: robert a

Damian,
This is a similar issue to the blank backed t206s in my opinion.
I have one blank back that looks like it has a diamond/factory cut graded authentic.
I have another one that looks like my nephew cut it with a left-handed scissors that would probably grade authentic.
It's rare that a card missing colors would be factory cut and grade a 1. Most of the examples I have seen are hand cut. It's impossible to tell when they were hand cut, but I don't consider these examples to be "trimmed." There is no reason why a collector would've cut them down to make them appear in better shape and it's unlikely they were cut to fit in a scrap book. It seems more likely that a full sheet(s) existed and someone cut them apart and gave them away or kept them in their personal collection. I imagine this took place when collectors didn't give a hoot about terms like trimmed, hand cut, and graded.

As Barry mentioned, I think collectors nowadays would prefer to pay more money for an example with a number grade.

Rob

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I have collected all sportscards with color errors for many years now.
And, collecting these cards are more popular than most of us know;
therefore, most color errors (irregardless of condition, bad cuts, etc.)
will always command higher prices. It's simple matter that most of us are
intrigued by "novel" cards such as these. After we have seen "tons" of
T206's, a card that is strange looking really generates a lot of interest.

Some of my more notable color errors are:

Base Ball cards
N162 Dunlap (no Green color)

T206 Orange Cobb (normally red....I have 2 of these)

T206 Yellow Donovan (Portrait card should be Green)

1949 LEAF..Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Musial, Ted Williams, Billy Johnson
all with abnormal colors

1949 Bowman..18 Lo"s and 27 Hi#s all missing their full colors (in-
cluding Snider and Campanella Rookies)

BasketBall
1948 Bowman....several Hi#s

FootBall
1948 Leaf Jackie Jensen

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Posted By: barrysloate

Didn't you get that Dunlap from me a very long time ago?

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Posted By: Damian

PSA gave a 1 due to some slight paper loss on the back. I think it looks much better than that, but then again, does it matter so much the grade as the fact that it actually has a grade?

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Posted By: barrysloate

The fact that it has full borders and looks like a regular T206 is very important. The fact that it only got a 1 is minimal. You came out way ahead and have a great looking card.

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Posted By: T206Collector

....was once my Baker. If you look carefully at the surface, you will see that I erased pencil marks on the front. Someone had written "3B" in pencil near his name. And also someone wrote "Released" in script pencil at the top of the card. I used an artists eraser so as not to harm the card itself, but there is still a trace of both. But they are most surely also contributing to the Grade of 1.

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Posted By: Damian

Collector,

Thanks for the great erasing job. I can't see it with my lighted 10X loupe. I do see some very light smudging left of his name though. Anyway, thanks for the card.

Damian

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Posted By: davidcycleback

There are color progression proofs, which are/were test cards showing different color combinations-- yellow/blue, red/black, etc. They were used to test colors and alignment before final printing. They have been made at least since T206 times, and usually have blank backs.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Barry

You remember well, my Goodwin Champion (N162) Fred Dunlap has a
YELLOW background instead of the normal GREEN colored one. I got it
from you in one of our "blockbuster" deals back in the late '80s.

This card is the only 19th Century card with a color error that I have
seen. I am sure there are more out there; but, I've been searching for
them for quite awhile and haven't found any. Does this tells us that the
Quality Control was much better back then....than in the 20th Century ?

Does anyone else on this Forum have any 19th Century error cards ?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The 1878 Forbes baseball trade cards can be found with the text missing. I once had the complete set missing the text.