Kevin Keating responds to shill bidding allegations

[vintagetoppsguy]

Hank, I certainly didn't mean that as a personal attack on you. Simply put, the truth can stand on it's own - it doesn't need confirmation.

I understand why you did it, he's your buddy. The timing of your post just looked suspicious as it was a prepared statement.

[h2oya311]

Kevin -

Thanks for coming forward with a logical explanation for your inclusion on "the list". Any other COC Paragraph 2 "offenders", please feel free to jump in now that Kevin has paved the way...perhaps Kevin's situation is unique, but there are still many on the list that have remained silent.

Kudos to Kevin and his lawyer for good detective work. I hope you are able to get something in writing from the U.S. Attorney's Office to make your defense iron-clad.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

..., but there are still many on the list that have remained silent.

Thankfully that is true.

You might have more fun by judging each one of them individually in their own thread.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Hank, I certainly didn't mean that as a personal attack on you. Simply put, the truth can stand on it's own - it doesn't need confirmation.

I understand why you did it, he's your buddy. The timing of your post just looked suspicious as it was a prepared statement.

It did not look suspicious to me since he had posted that more info was coming soon in the other thread. I just assumed he had it ready to go and was waiting for the right time to release it.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Hank, I certainly didn't mean that as a personal attack on you. Simply put, the truth can stand on it's own - it doesn't need confirmation.

I understand why you did it, he's your buddy. The timing of your post just looked suspicious as it was a prepared statement.

When I saw Hank's response my mind went back to his cryptic message on the "other" thread about more information to come and assumed he was finally saying what he knew to be true but could not do so before. I never gave one single thought as to how quickly he posted because I just assumed he had that all pre-written anyway which was no big deal.

I, for one am happy he posted because I would have been left hanging wondering what this additional information he indicated would be coming out of this mess really was.

[Spahn21]

Hi David,

Thank you for your candor and for allowing me the opportunity to address your concern—I have not spoken with Hank today but I see that he has posted a response to you already…and just to be clear, I never asked Hank to write a statement on my behalf. In fact, I have refrained from asking anyone (unless you included my lawyer) to intervene on my behalf – either here on Net 54 or anywhere else -- including Hank.

I have had dozens of people contact me over the past many days to offer themselves as character witnesses, but as I have stated before, I want the facts to speak for themselves. I realize the truth of what happened to me may not be enough to satisfy everyone but I remain confident that fair-minded people who take the time to read through the story and its convolutions will conclude that I did nothing wrong—Kevin K.

[Spahn21]

Bill,

Thank you for your suggestion. It may interest you to know that my lawyer also released my statement yesterday to Michael O’Keefe of the New York Daily News and I believe he has already published it there (online, I think).

I understand that O’Keefe is also reporting that Exhibit E has now been "redacted", but not sure what that means, at this point....

--Kevin K.

[Mark17]

Kevin,
Thanks for clearing this up regarding your appearance on the list. Makes perfect sense to me. I also think it adds to the integrity of your authentication service, that you would want to bid in a competitive auction for something you say is genuine.

It's guaranteeing your service : "I stand by my authentication, in fact, I'll buy it myself at a price higher than what others will pay."

There are OTHER scenarios where an authenticator could pull off something shady, like under grading an item to buy it cheap, over grading an item to re-sell it, and so on, but what you did is tell the world these items were genuine and then you backed it up with real money, attempting to acquire them yourself.

Not only is this not doing anything wrong, I think it should accrue to your credit.

I also think you handled the situation well in waiting for your lawyer to get things straightened out before posting here. That was just plain smart.

When that list first came out and the predictable lynch mob started forming, my first thought was this: If for some reason I was on the list (I wasn't and would not have been) the first thing I'd do is talk to an attorney, tell him everything I could recall about my dealings with that AH, and then decide if he was the right attorney for me.

I'd choose my attorney based on his initial advice. Guess which of these two bits of advice I'd consider to be best:

1. "Let me look into this and I'll let you know what I find out and we can go from there. For now, keep your mouth shut."

2. "I'll look into it. Meanwhile, I recommend you go to every internet blog and chat room you can find, and blab your head off about it."


What I'm saying is, I'll bet there are lots of other innocent people on that list who are remaining quiet on advice from an attorney, and I am also saying that would be the smart thing to do.

People are being sentenced to multiple years in federal prison... this isn't something to be sloppy about for those inadvertently caught up by it.

[forazzurri2axz]

I believe he was sentenced to 57 months in prison

[ValKehl]

I know who Kevin Keating is, but I have never had any dealings with him, and I'm not sure that I've ever conversed with him

However, I have known Hank Thomas for many, many years and have had many conversations and dealings with him. And it is my belief that NO ONE in this hobby of ours has A HIGHER LEVEL OF INTEGRITY than Hank Thomas.

Val Kehl

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I know who Kevin Keating is, but I have never had any dealings with him, and I'm not sure that I've ever conversed with him

However, I have known Hank Thomas for many, many years and have had many conversations and dealings with him. And it is my belief that NO ONE in this hobby of ours has A HIGHER LEVEL OF INTEGRITY than Hank Thomas.

Val Kehl

Thanks, my friend. And if I ever heard that Val Kehl had ever done anything the slightest bit dirty, I would immediately lose whatever faith I had in mankind, or at least in my ability to tell the good guys from the bad!

[bcawly]

I sent the following email to Kevin Keating on February 9 after a review of Exhibit E and his response to the matter. Exhibit E standing alone does not disclose how the government's investigation confirmed collusion among specific parties to shill bid, it does clearly show the conflicted inter-party transactions that exist between the auction houses and those that do business with them.

There is the need for more transparent and verifiable auction practices and controls to detect and prevent shill bidding along the line I presented in my email to Kevin Keating that follows. It is my opinion, that there is a clear need for the major auction firms to step up and address this issue to ensure the integrity of their business practices. I stand behind my comments to Mr. Keating.

Bob Cawly



Re: Mastro-Legendary Auction's Shill Bidding Report Response
From Robert H. Cawly
To qualityautographs qualityautographs@msn.com

Kevin

Just let me say that after reviewing Exhibit E, it appears to me that you were also a victim of the shill bidding and that your bidding patterns were customary with many dealers and collectors that desire to take an early position on a number of lots to hold a place in extended bidding. In any event, the infraction is one of RELATED PARTY TRANSACTIONS which make you ineligible to bid. The more appropriate classification would be "Bids by Ineligible Bidders" as opposed to calling them all shill bids.

While the effect is the same as placing a shill bid, the implications are completely different. All reputable auction houses should post a list of Related Parties and make known the Related Party Policies which would include auction house employees, and employees of subcontractors, authentication firms and other related companies.

The real issues reside with the business practices of the auction firms. It is up to the auction house to enforce its own rules, not the bidders. The prudent auction house would have each auction overseen by an well known and reputable independent accountant that would oversee the bidding process, and audit the auction records. This one step would clearly establish what auction firms are interested in restoring honesty and integrity to our hobby and care about their firm's credibility. The expense of such a process would clearly be affordable and a sound investment.

Knowing of your credentials and reputation for integrity from people in the industry and notably fellow UACC members, let me express my full confidence in your response in this matter.

Robert H Cawly, CPA
UACC RD326

[prewarsports]

Kevin is one of the first big guys in the hobby that treated me fairly and honestly when I was a young man getting started in the hobby. I would go to shows in my early 20's and other big dealers would not even bother to stop and show me a card in their cases, while Kevin was very personable and for that I have always respected him. Getting to know him more over the years and having numerous encounters with him, I always thought he was one of the more respectable people in the hobby. It is not surprising to me at all there is a rational explanation for his name being on the list. I am happy he was able to clear the air.

Rhys Yeakley

[jimjim]

Not to drag up an old thread, but I was just on Kevin's website and I was surprised on his prices. He is charging 2-3x the going rate for most items. Do people actually pay his prices? I know he is one of the best in the hobby, but am not going to pay a premium for living modern day players.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Then don't pay it. You don't need to tell anyone you are not going to do it. People can charge whatever the hell they want for stuff. When it's your stuff, you can do what you want with it.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Then don't pay it. You don't need to tell anyone you are not going to do it. People can charge whatever the hell they want for stuff. When it's your stuff, you can do what you want with it.

+1

[jimjim]

I get it. You guys are dealers and you guys are friends with Kevin. I fully understand that you're defending him and all dealers. However, I was just wondering how a person so highly respected in the hobby can offer prices that are not competitive. That is my only question. I am sorry if I insulted anyone.

[ALR-bishop]

Maybe he is colluding with Levi and Dean to keep all their prices high so no one will buy anything and bring the hobby to a standstill.

[drmondobueno]

Deleted

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jimjim

I get it. You guys are deslers and you guys are friends with Kevin. I fully understand that you're defending him and all dealers. However, I was just wondering how a person so highly respected in the hobby can offer prices that are not competitive. That is my only question. I am sorry if I insulted anyone.

Insulted? Where did you get that? And I don't see any defense of Kevin or "all dealers" in our responses. Where did you find those, exactly? The real question is: what's YOUR point? All collectors find what they perceive to be overpriced items everywhere they turn. Ebay, Online stores, shows, auctions, etc. So you don't buy them, simple as that. Have you ever told a dealer at a show that his stuff is overpriced? I didn't think so. Why bother? It's his business. I'm not an autograph guy, so I can't speak to Kevin's prices specifically, but I will tell you this. He's been the biggest vintage sports autograph dealer in the country for many years, and probably the most successful in dollar volume. I set up with him at the National each year, and he's swamped doing business from beginning to end. As for his website, he's had a full-time employee whose only job is handling that part of the operation for the last 25 years, so I'm guessing that does pretty well, too. I have this suggestion for you: give Kevin a call. He loves to talk about every aspect of the hobby, and he will be happy to explain anything you want to discuss, from hobby pricing in general to any individual autograph you might ask about. Maybe you'll both learn something.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jimjim

I get it. You guys are deslers and you guys are friends with Kevin. I fully understand that you're defending him and all dealers. However, I was just wondering how a person so highly respected in the hobby can offer prices that are not competitive. That is my only question. I am sorry if I insulted anyone.

I don't think it's entirely how you're putting it.

For a dealer who has stuff that's "right" or in other words trusted to not be fake, some of the higher costs are related to the cost of replacing the inventory. The few autographs I've ever sold went for the going rate for what they were. Once popular football players who signed at shows, 8x10s with no certs but the show flyers and auto tickets. Originally $25, and it wasn't clear if that included the cost of the photo. Both sold for about the cost of an unsigned photo, which was typical. I was happy with that price.

But if I was a full time dealer? I'd have asked probably a bit more than 2-3x the going rate. Because I would have a need to keep those commons in inventory, and I'd have to pay at least the going rate to replace that inventory.
How many dealers would do well having none of the cheap stuff? Some, but for most dealers it's the volume of common items that make enough to support the business. And if the reputation becomes "they have good prices, but usually don't have what/anything I want" They won't last long. The same problem comes with being one of those guys who won't pay a decent price for stuff someone is selling. Get a rep as someone who lowballs every time and the really good stuff will never come your way.

All of the above is intended to be generic, I don't know Kevin, but I've hung around a lot of dealers and spent a trivial amount of time on their side of the table and that's part of the challenge they've got as I see it.


Steve B

[tazdmb]

I am a full time autograph collector and have purchased from Kevin several times. Simply put, the names I have purchased from him are tough (Glasscock, Dahlen) and I don't trust many dealers. I put a premium on paying for his (and other trusted sellers) reputation and background.

That said, every time I have dealt with him, Kevin and his staff could not have been any kinder to me and did not "rush" me through and ignore me.

The final thing I want to add is that this a free country and Kevin can charge whatever he wants-just like you can offer any price you want.