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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

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  #1  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:53 PM
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Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Default Congrats to the New HOF Members:

2015 Topps Industry Summit- Mariano Rivera Auto.jpg1998 Bowman Certified Blue- Roy Halladay Auto.jpg

2016 Topps Legacies- Edgar Martinez Auto.jpg1999 Skybox- Mike Mussina Auto.jpg

2003 Topps Archives- LEE SMITH Auto.jpg2016 Topps Archives- HAROLD BAINES Auto.jpg
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2019, 08:23 PM
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Sean McGinty
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Wow, Mariano was unanimous? That is insane (in a good way)!
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  #3  
Old 01-22-2019, 08:43 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is online now
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Mussina making it this year surprised me, although I think he is deserving.

The 100% surprised me, as well. Vets Committee withstanding, we're in a new era of the HOF - no longer codifying the errors of the past (the "nobody can have 100%" thing) or limiting the electees to 1-2 per year (3 plus more often in the last 5-6 years than several combined decades combined).

Next year will be interesting...Jeter is a lock, but beyond that, there aren't any locks in the class, IMO. May be a chance for some guys currently on the ballot to make some big gains.
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:12 PM
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Ken Wirt
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Very nice autograph grouping!!
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2019, 01:47 PM
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Ken Wirt
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Just picked up the new 2019 class.
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2019, 07:39 AM
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Peter Spaeth
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I "protested" the absurd prices of PSA 9s for Smith and Baines, and their election, by buying raw lol.
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File Type: jpg smith,l.jpg (68.8 KB, 82 views)
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2019, 07:35 PM
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Shain
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I have cards for all but Baines and Smith. Smith's case was much stronger than Baines IMO. Considering Baines is the 74th most valuable right fielder (https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../jaws_RF.shtml) and Smith is the 16th most valuable reliever (https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../jaws_RP.shtml).

I'm not hating! Congrats to both of them! I realize these new-age metrics like JAWS and WAR may not be the be-all end-all tools to gauge a players value, but they certainly serve as notable performance measurement tools when comparing a player to their peers at their respective positions, IMO. I wouldn't mind picking up a nice Lee Smith rookie at some point, but I won't be pursuing a similar card for Baines, as he simply has no business being enshrined among the greatest outfielders of all time, IMO. He was decent player who was an accumulator, he accumulated 2866 hits, 384 home runs, and 1628 RBI over a 22-year career. His highest MVP finish was 9th. His highest single-season WAR was 4.3. He only led the league in one thing ever with a .541 SLG in 1984.

I remember some people in the media accusing Craig Biggio of being nothing more than a compiler/accumulator during his HOF candidacy. This is partially true, regarding the milestone 3,000 hits he played several more years to accumulate over his 20-year career. However, Biggio ranks as the 15th most valuable 2nd baseman per JAWS (https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../jaws_2B.shtml), finished 4th and 5th in MVP voting in 1997 and 1998 during the height of the steroid era and led the league in several categories during his peak, including runs, doubles and stolen bases. Biggio equaled or ecplised Baines high of 4.3 WAR 9 times, including Biggio's high of 9.4 in 1997. Biggio also ranks 5th all time in doubles (668).

In conclusion, it's OK to acknowledge a compiler/accumulator for the hall of fame, with the caveat that they are ranked among the greatest of their peers at their respective position, based on their peek performance AND accumulative stats. IMO, and based on modern metrics for measuring a players value, Harold Baines had no such great peek performance and simply never earned a rightful spot among the greatest to ever play the game.
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File Type: jpg MRivera-1992.jpg (32.4 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg RHalladay-1997.jpg (75.3 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg MMussina-1991.jpg (76.3 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg EMartinez-1988.jpg (77.1 KB, 51 views)
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2019, 11:50 PM
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Sean McGinty
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There is a saying here in Japan: "Better to have been remembered as a great Ozeki than as a disappointing Yokozuna."

Yokozuna is the highest rank in sumo and it basically means its better not to promote marginal wrestlers to the top rank since they'll be remembered only as disappointments in that rank, while if you had left them as Ozeki (2nd highest rank) they'd be fondly remembered as really solid Ozeki.

This applies perfectly to Baines. Until now I had thought of him approvingly as a really solid "Hall of Very Gooder".

Now he is just going to be remembered as the most undeserving post-war player in the Hall.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2019, 09:13 AM
Mike D. Mike D. is online now
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Very apropos, Sean. It's going to hurt Baines' legacy long-term, which to many will sound counter-intuitive.

I'm not a "need a PSA RC of every HOFer" guy, but I like PSA RC's of Hall of Famers. I bought a Smith PSA 9 a few years back for something like $10 delivered (I mention when and exact amount I paid in another thread I now can't seem to locate). I didn't think Smith belonged in the HOF, but I figured he had a chance and would be a likely "vets committee" pick.

Baines wasn't even on my radar screen, and I pick up lots of cards of guys who are borderline, just in case (and because "Hall of Very Good" is still, well, very good).

So, I have Bernie Williams, Larry Walker, Curt Schilling, Mark Grace, Jeff Kent, Carlos Delgado, Todd Helton, Andy Pettitte, and more all represented, but never would have dreamed Baines would have made it over those guys.
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