T205 production time

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by z28jd

This thread reminds me of a movie I watched last night. Someone was looking into a mystery and a guy in the movie kept trying to misdirect them by talking about other stuff.

Can we fast forward to the end? Ted knows why Wood and Blair aren't in the T205 set! Spill it, Ted...let everyone in on the secret!

Yea John I know why....but, I aint going to tell you

But, why are you guys singling out Wood and Blair ?

What is the more significant ? is why aren't Joe Jackson and Casey Stengel in the T205 (or T206) sets ?

They are in the T210 set which was printed in 1910 ? ?

Answer that one for me, will you....


TED Z
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[Leon]

Contract disputes

Originally Posted by tedzan

....

What is the more significant ? is why aren't Joe Jackson and Casey Stengel in the T205 (or T206) sets ?

They are in the T210 set which was printed in 1910 ? ?

Answer that one for me, will you....


TED Z
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[steve B]

It could be the lead time and other timing as well. Getting all the artwork done from an available photo would take time, and they were pretty much done with minor leaguers in T206 before 1911. Southern leaguers would probably have been set and art done before the end of 1909.

T205s ended too early for Stengel and it appears they ended T205s before they intended. Maybe there was art done, but there isn't enough minor league selection in the set to guess.

Jackson moved around a lot, 08-10 he was with three different minor league teams as well as getting in a few games in the majors. It's possible they didn't have a picture they felt they could use until 1910. A total crazy guess was that they wanted to include him but the same sort of contract thing that Plank may have been involved with affected him as well.


As an aside, my wifes relative started with Greenville in 1909. A fact I'm pretty happy about since that means if I find a team photo Jackson won't be in it and I just might be able to afford it.

Steve B

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve B

It could be the lead time and other timing as well. Getting all the artwork done from an available photo would take time, and they were pretty much done with minor leaguers in T206 before 1911. Southern leaguers would probably have been set and art done before the end of 1909.

Jackson moved around a lot, 08-10 he was with three different minor league teams as well as getting in a few games in the majors. It's possible they didn't have a picture they felt they could use until 1910. A total crazy guess was that they wanted to include him but the same sort of contract thing that Plank may have been involved with affected him as well.

Steve B

Steve

I have to differ with you regarding "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. As I am sure you know, Joe has the record for the highest BA (.408 with 233 Hits) for a rookie player.
He accomplished this playing a full season with Cleveland in 1911.

American Litho was still designing and printing T205's well into the 1911 season. Evidence of this is found by reading the Bios on certain T205 cards, namely the
12 - Minor Leaguers......


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TED Z
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[steve B]

That's true, but aside from a few cards like the T202s and maybe the piedmont art stamps? - Haven't checked to see if those have any T205 art that didn't make T205- we don't know what players they were planning on doing.

And with almost 200 designs that didn't get done there's plenty of room for Jackson.

If you read the bios on the minor leaguers closely, one thing that stands out is that the bios reflect events in 1911 up to about early August. But where there was a trade the fronts show the player with the team they started the season with. So the front art was probably done before the season began, and the backs were done much closer to the time the cards were printed. So there may have been a 5 month or longer delay between the front art being done and the printing /issuing of some cards.

With August being a bit late in the season and the series only about halfway done I'd have to wonder why. Could there have been production problems that slowed the issuing? Probably not, ALC had plenty of experience. Or maybe the series wasn't successful and other stuff was being tried? More likely the chaos of breaking up the company slowed all their promotional efforts.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve B

That's true, but aside from a few cards like the T202s

Steve....speaking about T202's....I find it very puzzling that Joe Jackson was not featured in the 1912 T202 set ? ?

What's your explanation of this omission ?

Originally Posted by steve B

More likely the chaos of breaking up the company slowed all their promotional efforts.

Steve....the anti-trust divestiture applied to ATC.... not ALC.


TED Z
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[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Steve....speaking about T202's....I find it very puzzling that Joe Jackson was not featured in the 1912 T202 set ? ?

What's your explanation of this omission ?




Steve....the anti-trust divestiture applied to ATC.... not ALC.


TED Z
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Jackson not being in T202 is something I could only guess at. And it wouldn't be a guess I'd have a lot of confidence in. Probably something to do with money or some other contract issue.


I did mean ATCs breakup. With the breakup being negotiated and sometimes no solid idea exactly what was happening they may have been hesitant to run a promotion that might have to be recalled or cancelled altogether, perhaps even before it could be released.

What did get issued in the later parts of 1911 was probably what they'd already committed to buy from ALC.

Steve B

[Leon]

Jackson is sliding in one of the middle panels....

Originally Posted by tedzan

Steve....speaking about T202's....I find it very puzzling that Joe Jackson was not featured in the 1912 T202 set ? ?

What's your explanation of this omission ?

Steve....the anti-trust divestiture applied to ATC.... not ALC.


TED Z
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[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by steve B

That's true, but aside from a few cards like the T202s and maybe the piedmont art stamps? - Haven't checked to see if those have any T205 art that didn't make T205- we don't know what players they were planning on doing.

The two T202 end panels and the one Piedmont Art Stamp shown in my previous post are the only examples of T205 artwork seen in other issues and that are not in the T205 set. It certainly seems like they would have had other artwork in production (to reach that 400 subjects claim) that just didn't end up seeing the light of day.

The mustachioed Ewing was just for fun, in case there was any confusion. The Village People were a 1970's construct, complete with the construction guy, although I think Ewing is imitating the cop.

Brian