Another Probstein LOL

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

I read about the complaints and agree. I don't see how one person states that others should call eBay but yet they won't. Strange but that's the way it goes.

I consigned to PWCC and did not have any "help" and lost money in the long run. I simply wouldn't shill them up hoping one day maybe I would be able to buy something at a favorable price as well. My mistake.

You did the right thing. Karma is a killer. Those consignors that are shilling their own stuff will get their just dues. And I also agree with Sean somewhat. I will still bid on Probstein stuff and PWCC stuff but know that I will be very careful in doing so. My only concern with those 2 sellers is that they could maybe do a little more in banning ebayers that have crappy tendencies, which we have all seen. I firmly don't believe Rick or Brent conspire in the shilling. A little more diligence, when called attention to, is all I would ask for.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I firmly don't believe Rick or Brent conspire in the shilling.

It was pointed out to Rick over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own auctions. Rick did absolutely nothing about it. He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It was pointed out to Rick over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own auctions. Rick did absolutely nothing about it. He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

I am in agreement David. As I said, I think the large ebay sellers need to do more to prevent fraud. By any of them not taking action, when pointed out, I can see your point.


And to Jeff- I would be surprised if Rick won the ball and shills, or has someone else shill, his own auctions. I am not saying that more doesn't need to be done. It does. And I also think these threads help expose issues. Anyone that doesn't see that should stick their head back in the sand.

[smtjoy]

"+1 I am proud to say I that have not bid on any Probstein items since it was confirmed that he condones consignors shilling their own items. "

+2 I have not bid on any of his auctions in over a year, I just cant support this bs. It's been tough as I have had to pass on a ton of cards I would have bid up for sure.

Keep on posting these threads as they do any new members a real service and reinforce those not bidding. Also funny how the same few always come and defend his auctions.

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

What character? I am unfortunately a victim of his thanks to only seeing a very old post here talking mostly positively about him. I'm going to start a thread about my terrible experience with him. I've been to his "office" in Passaic where he lists his stuff. Once I get the whole thing together, I will post it. This guy belongs in prison for a number of reasons which I will bring up in that thread.

By the way, in the eyes of ethical people, if you witness a crime and do nothing to stop it, then you aren't that much better than the criminal.

There is a way to stop him. The shill bidding is most likely interstate fraud, which would involve the FBI. No one thought that crook Bill Mastro could be brought down. What happened to him? Everyone needs to file repeated complaints to the FBI, to the IRS, to their state's Attorney General. I would say local police, but they wouldn't do anything. Contact media outlets from the internet and other venues. He can be brought down very easily, but with time and with some effort. What happened to good old American know how? Was that outsourced as well? I am going to do my best to bring this trash down. The only way our government and law enforcement ever does anything is to shut up the people that constantly complain to them. If you keep complaining to the FBI, they will eventually begin watching him. It will be worth the effort in the end.

By the way, why would he stop allowing shilling if people keep bidding? It only makes him more money, and it's clear his world revolves around taking every penny he can from everyone. I for one will never do business with this trash again. I wish I had seen these threads about him instead of the ones praising him. I would have never consigned with him.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+1

[/B] I would love to hear his answer.

He ignores answering questions that expose him or put him in a negative light, so unless you ask him 15 times, he most likely will ignore it. That is obvious guilt.

[calvindog]

Yeah, Probstein is clean as a whistle. Here's a Christy Mathewson signed ball which ended on ebay just a couple days ago: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=370937104344

The ball sold for $8990, solely because the underbidder put in a bid at about $1600 above the third bidder for the ball, three days before the ebay auction ended -- and the underbidder just happens to bid in Probstein's auctions 94% of the time. Curiously, the underbidder's bid of $8890 is almost identical to what the ball sold for in the 2013 REA auction ($8887): http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...85.html#photos

My guess is that either the underbidder/shill bidder won the ball in the REA auction and didn't want to lose any money on the ebay sale which is why his placeholder bid was identical to the REA price -- or that Rick Probstein himself won the ball in REA and sold it in his own auction above, shilling his own ball.

I'll email Rick now and ask him if this ball was indeed his.

[Batter67up]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

[ullmandds]

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

There are a lot more people on the board, no doubt. Wild Wild west? Far from it in my opinion. That doesn't mean you can just do things blindly. But I personally think that if you do your homework it's as close to perfectly safe as I know of, on such a venue. I am biased of course.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

Problem is, that when a Ruth goes off in a PWCC or Probstein auction, the price is inflated -- which influences the value that you would place on the card when you make a best offer.

[bobbyw8469]

I think it all boils down to unrealistic expectations. Just because a card sold for $1,000 last week from a seller other than PWCC or Probstein DOES NOT make that exact same card worth $1,500 or more one week later with PWCC or Probstein as the seller!!!! Or does it??!?!??!?!?!??!!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you on that. Yeah. Sure, there are a few trolls here and there on N54. That said, there are lots of solid, committed, friendly collectors here who've got many years into the Hobby and are as passionate about their collections as can be. Everyone who shows up at our shows is evidence of that. If you're around SoCal in May when we do our next show, come on out and meet the gang. Or attend the National if you haven't and meet up with everyone there. Lots of good people...

I don't think flipping is bad. I think we're all flippers to some extent--I know I try to finance my collection that way--but the prevalence of auction houses as the means of selling cards with mass lotting that lumps dozens or even hundreds of cards into 'dealer friendly' lots increasingly dictates that we all end up flipping stuff.

The answer to shilling on eBay is not simple but there are mitigating measures that can be taken, which we've kicked around ad nauseum here already. First and foremost is exposure, which N54 does very well indeed.

[Batter67up]

I agree their are a lot of really good people on this board but as it grows like everything else in this world the scammers and let's make a quick buck people have grown in multiples and are just a turn-off in the hobby. They will come and go on this board and hopefully the quality collectors will stick it out. This hobby was built on collectors trading and purchasing cards they really want and exploited by people trying to make a quick buck or selling fake/counterfeit items. The TPG's have included themselves in the deception in the hobby by grading cards that are known to be trimmed and giving them a grade of 8. The accountability is just not there. Dealers using one price guide to buy from and a second to sell from? We are not going to grow the hobby with these actions. I have enjoyed this hobby and this forum but I made my original post because I really don't like what I have been seeing over the last year or so. I hate negativity and look forward to discussing the excitement of someone getting a card they really wanted.

Steve

[HRBAKER]

Follow the money.
When the dollars get big (and they have) along come the folks allergic to a honest day's work.

There are PLENTY of fine folks on this board but it is different than it used to be. And that's not all bad either.

We will all be flippers at some point.

[glynparson]

Are not new to this business and there are far less of both than in the late 1980s-mid 1990s when there were far more people attempting to make a buck selling cards. I also do not think there is more but actually less fraud than back then, in terms of counterfeits and alterations. Do these things still exist absolutely and they always will. That does not mean we should not expose fraud when we see it. There is more fraud in terms of shilling mainly because far more cards are now sold via auction then at any other time. Ps there are a ton of good people on this board and a few p.i.t.as.