NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:25 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,523
Default Calling BS on WAR

Yelich slash line -- 14/34/.353
DeJong slash line -- 5/13/.342

DeJong has a higher WAR.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:55 AM
chaddurbin's Avatar
chaddurbin chaddurbin is offline
qu@n nguy3n
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Default

For a guy so anti-war you sure likes to keep track and bringing it up. I think you're secretly in love with it!
__________________
One post max per thread.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:01 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 5,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Yelich slash line -- 14/34/.353
DeJong slash line -- 5/13/.342

DeJong has a higher WAR.
You are ignorant of the following WAR provision.

If you play in Milwaukee, your WAR is automatically divided by three.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:06 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddurbin View Post
For a guy so anti-war you sure likes to keep track and bringing it up. I think you're secretly in love with it!
Maybe DeJong is the new Trout, he gets points just for participation.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:06 AM
nat's Avatar
nat nat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 567
Default

The difference is all fielding. DeJong is a shortstop (and a good one). Yelich is a little bit above average in RF. (Also DeJong's batting is a little better than you made it seem, as he's leading the league in doubles.)

But perhaps more to the point: the difference is 0.1 WAR, which really doesn't signal anything. Heck, it could be a result of rounding. A (so far) great hitting shortstop is as valuable as a really great hitting outfielder. That's totally believable.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:19 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nat View Post
The difference is all fielding. DeJong is a shortstop (and a good one). Yelich is a little bit above average in RF. (Also DeJong's batting is a little better than you made it seem, as he's leading the league in doubles.)

But perhaps more to the point: the difference is 0.1 WAR, which really doesn't signal anything. Heck, it could be a result of rounding. A (so far) great hitting shortstop is as valuable as a really great hitting outfielder. That's totally believable.
Call me old fashioned, but I'll take Yelich.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-01-2019, 11:45 AM
999Tony 999Tony is offline
Brian "Tony" Levinson
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Leavenworth County Kansas
Posts: 98
Default Pretty nice start to season

You're old fashioned

WAR agrees that Yelich has been the better hitter this year, even with the position adjustment. According to baseball ref, Yelich worth 2.1 and DeJong 1.8 on hitting alone.

DeJong's 167 OPS+ year to date pretty impressive for a middle infielder, but Yelich has a 223 OPS+

The difference is defense --DeJong 0.6 WAR and Yelich 0.0.

Of course WAR doesn't predict future performance. Yelich is still almost certain to end up with a higher WAR for the year than DeJong.
__________________
Brian "Tony" Levinson

Member of Old Baseball Cards as of 4/22/18 thanks to some very nice people I met on this site.
Thank you very much Net54 community.
New to site, but already successful trades with Mintacular, jschris, avalanche2006, obcbobd jimmysuitcase, and marchillo.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-01-2019, 05:36 PM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
Lou Simcoe
L0u Sim.coe
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Call me old fashioned, but I'll take Yelich.
+1 and however many zero's you want to add.

I look at the basic stats and percentages, but in no way is DeJong more valuable than Yelich. This shouldn't even be a discussion. However someone will keep spinning the stats to try and show otherwise.
__________________
My new found obsession the t206!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:51 PM
chaddurbin's Avatar
chaddurbin chaddurbin is offline
qu@n nguy3n
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Default

oh hey trout just woke up and put on his pants today, that adds another .02 to his war total. trout has tied or ahead of bellinger and yelich "unbelievable" years. trout's also on pace for his best war year if he doesn't get injured.
__________________
One post max per thread.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:08 PM
HRBAKER's Avatar
HRBAKER HRBAKER is offline
Jeff
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 5,028
Default War

Good band
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page

HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos

"Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 40 years."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:52 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is offline
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 5,076
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRBAKER View Post
Good band
+1 Low Rider and The Cisco Kid are among my favorites.
__________________
T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:35 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 7,310
Default

WAR...what is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, except starting an argument in a sports bar.
__________________
Please visit my web site: www.americasgreatboxingcards.com
So... move out of your studio apartment! And try speaking to a real live woman, and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just baseball cards dammit, IT'S JUST BASEBALL CARDS!
10% off any BIN in my eBay store (user name: exhibitman) for N54 members buying direct from me through this site instead, just PM me.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-26-2019, 09:31 PM
Yastrzemski Sports's Avatar
Yastrzemski Sports Yastrzemski Sports is offline
Adam Yastrzemski
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Cooperstown, NY
Posts: 404
Default

My favorite example of a player who has benefited from WAR is Edgar Martinez.

His total WAR is 68.4 which includes 2247 hits, 309 hr, 1261 rbi.
Eddie Murray is 68.7 which includes 3255 hits, 504 hr and 1917 rbi.

War stats include defense - which Edgar has none and Eddie has multiple gold gloves. I couldn’t begin to explain the calculations involved.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-27-2019, 08:17 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 5,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
My favorite example of a player who has benefited from WAR is Edgar Martinez.

His total WAR is 68.4 which includes 2247 hits, 309 hr, 1261 rbi.
Eddie Murray is 68.7 which includes 3255 hits, 504 hr and 1917 rbi.

War stats include defense - which Edgar has none and Eddie has multiple gold gloves. I couldn’t begin to explain the calculations involved.
Edgar won the WAR.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:53 PM
HRBAKER's Avatar
HRBAKER HRBAKER is offline
Jeff
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 5,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
WAR...what is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, except starting an argument in a sports bar.
Say it again!
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page

HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos

"Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 40 years."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-29-2019, 03:55 PM
nat's Avatar
nat nat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 567
Default

Edgar's advantage is that he was much better at reaching base (=not making outs) than was Murray. He's 22nd all-time in on-base percentage, sandwiched between Mike Trout and Stan Musial. Eddie Murray is 470th all-time, tied with Danny Green. Edgar has 60 points of on-base percentage over Murray. That's huge. And it's also what makes up for the fact that Murray was a good first baseman and Edgar was mostly a DH. (Edgar was a 3B when he was young, and a good one. He was moved to minimize injuries, not because he wasn't good with the glove.) Murray's other problem is that after age 35 he wasn't a good defender any more, and he actually lost WAR due to defense over his final six seasons. Of course Edgar still paid the penalty for being a DH when he was old (it's about -1.5 WAR per season), but Murray's advantage in defense declined significantly as he got older.

Here's another way to look at the differences in their bats. OPS+ measures on-base plus slugging percentage, adjusts it for the ball park the player plays in (so Rockies players, for example, don't get an unfair advantage) and then compares it to league average. Edgar's OPS+ is 42nd all-time, tied with Willie McCovey and Mike Schmidt, just a notch below Albert Pujols. Eddie Murray is 179th all-time, tied with, well, lots of people: Bobby Bonds, Mickey Cochrane, Nelson Cruz, Buck Ewing, Sid Gordon, David Justice. These are good batters, but they're not Willie McCovey and Mike Schmidt. Murray was a very good player who played for a very long time. Edgar was a genuinely great batter with a shorter career. On balance, what they contributed to their respective teams works out to be about the same.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm Calling BS on... clydepepper Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk 11 04-06-2018 09:49 AM
Calling Dr. Cheech. Calling Dr. Chong. Trending at $160.00. Brian Van Horn Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 18 11-14-2014 08:14 AM
Calling it a day after these...... Brian Van Horn Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 05-04-2014 10:14 AM
Calling Ted Z and others- '63 topps? J.McMurry Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 6 02-14-2010 07:00 PM
Calling Jim Crandall Archive Football Cards Forum 1 09-02-2007 07:21 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.


ebay GSB