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  #1  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:13 PM
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Default Hats off to the USWNT

Hats off to the U.S. Womanís National soccer team, and especially Megan Rapinoe. They talked big and backed it up. Forget equal pay for the menís and womanís teams. The men are horrible and no threat to win anything. The women should be paid more than the men. They are the best in the world and likely to stay that way.
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:21 PM
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SO much fun to watch that game yesterday!

-Al
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  #3  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:27 PM
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SO much fun to watch that game yesterday!

-Al
+1 it was a great game to watch.

We(most of us) should move to collecting womens soccer cards. Wouldn't it make much more sense to collect pictures of younger athletic women in uniforms. That would just make us creepy old men. Now collecting younger athletic men in uniforms makes us look like........

Before anyone gets all offended that is a joke but if you are still offended fire away.
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:31 PM
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No politics.

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  #5  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:33 PM
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David—Who are you referring to? If you are referring to the initial post there is no politics in it. Politics is the way countries are governed and the ways governments make rules and laws. Mine was simply a comment about how our national soccer teams are run.

Last edited by oldjudge; 07-08-2019 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
DavidóWho are you referring to? If you are referring to the initial post there is no politics in it. Politics is the way countries are governed and the ways governments make rules and laws. Mine was simply a comment about how our national soccer teams are run.
It was a response to the OP and was just a joke.
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:32 PM
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It was a response to the OP and was just a joke.
LOL, no problem. Sometimes, when walking down the old West streets of Net 54, you draw first and ask questions later.

Last edited by oldjudge; 07-08-2019 at 07:32 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Hats off to the U.S. Womanís National soccer team, and especially Megan Rapinoe. They talked big and backed it up. Forget equal pay for the menís and womanís teams. The men are horrible and no threat to win anything. The women should be paid more than the men. They are the best in the world and likely to stay that way.
The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.

I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.

I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.
That's the worldwide number, and it makes the international prize money make sense. The US pay and bonus money is also a lot less than the mens team, but the womens team has earned more three years in a row.
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
+1 it was a great game to watch.

We(most of us) should move to collecting womens soccer cards. Wouldn't it make much more sense to collect pictures of younger athletic women in uniforms. That would just make us creepy old men. Now collecting younger athletic men in uniforms makes us look like........

Before anyone gets all offended that is a joke but if you are still offended fire away.
Were you collecting when the benchwarmers cards were current?

Now we're both in trouble.....
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:20 PM
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My son and daughter were at the game. Sounds like it was amazing!
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.

I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.
If pay is in any way based on performance (and I recognize that it often is not), it is more than clear that the women are VASTLY underpaid and the men are VASTLY overpaid. That is a no-brainer IMO. I hope they win their lawsuit.
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  #13  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:47 PM
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Hard to lose when there is no competition. Womenís national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:50 PM
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They should play the men's team, double or nothing.
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:55 PM
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Iím the bad guy... My mom is English and I was pulling hard for the English team to beat the US. It means so much more to the average fan in these other countries. Also, let me be clear, I have never won a Olympic medal, World Cup, professional sport. I have played college sports and had three shoulder surgeries, so I get their sacrifice to win the gold.
My issue is this, we should win the gold every World Cup. We have so many ladies playing soccer in this country, and our population is tremendous. Canít compare the guys to the girls. Best male athletes in America usually gravitate towards track, football or basketball.
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:34 PM
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Default Hats off to the USWNT

Quote:
Originally Posted by egbeachley View Post
Hard to lose when there is no competition. Womenís national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.


Ignorant statement. All of Western Europe, Japan/Korea/Oceana, North America and the whole of South America put a great emphasis on womenís football. Saying womanís sports are an afterthought in these regions shows your lack of knowledge of international womanís sports. Itís the elite sport for women in all these regions.

It just so happens we have superior infrastructure to any other nation in the world. USA womanís football will always be the class of the world. If it wasnít for baseball and basketball, USA would also dominate in menís football as well.


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Last edited by lancemountain; 07-08-2019 at 10:43 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.



I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.


The issue is not only the pay but the treatment. The women arenít afforded the same travel, pay and hospitality as the men. By the letter of the law they should be equal.

Iím not talking about the the World Cup. The menís tourney generates billions while the womanís generates tens of millions.

Itís the pay for friendlies, practice, travel and the club wage structures.

In short: the men are payed more and treated better for those things despite drawing less TV revenue. Getting to the World Cup? Fair play, you get paid more because the menís tourney is richer. But itís the rest of the program thatís wacky.


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  #18  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by egbeachley View Post
Hard to lose when there is no competition. Womenís national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.
Here's a thought: Celebrate their achievements, which are fairly epic. Or are you just too big a pig to do that?
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  #19  
Old 07-09-2019, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by egbeachley View Post
Hard to lose when there is no competition. Womenís national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.
The menís team are the Washington Generals of the soccer world. People donít pay big bucks to watch them, they pay big bucks to see the team that will beat them. In 2018, they got knocked out of the World Cup by that perennial soccer power Trinidad and Tobago, a country with less people than a few Manhattan high rises.
The easy solution to the salary issue is pay both the men and women the same amount per game won in the World Cup. Their salary should be based on performance. Itís not like this will hurt our menís teamís performance. They will lose either way. The womanís team is a source of national pride. The menís team, not so much.
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  #20  
Old 07-09-2019, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
The menís team are the Washington Generals of the soccer world. People donít pay big bucks to watch them, they pay big bucks to see the team that will beat them. In 2018, they got knocked out of the World Cup by that perennial soccer power Trinidad and Tobago, a country with less people than a few Manhattan high rises.
The easy solution to the salary issue is pay both the men and women the same amount per game won in the World Cup. Their salary should be based on performance. Itís not like this will hurt our menís teamís performance. They will lose either way. The womanís team is a source of national pride. The menís team, not so much.
Wow. A completely revolutionary idea. And I historically don't even like soccer, at least when the men play. I would rather watch grass grow.
But I watched the last 3 women's games. And I got into it. I have never before admitted that.
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  #21  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:41 AM
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They should play the men's team, double or nothing.
Didn't the Womens team lose to 15 year old boys?
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  #22  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by steve B View Post
That's the worldwide number, and it makes the international prize money make sense. The US pay and bonus money is also a lot less than the mens team, but the womens team has earned more three years in a row.
Then they should get paid more, period.
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  #23  
Old 07-09-2019, 07:47 AM
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Itís cool to have a local tie to this team. My country club (Trenton CC) assistant golf pro (Brian Hollis) is married to Carli Lloyd. Unfortunately, Brian has recently moved on to another CC as their head pro ... but Carli has even appeared in person on occasion ... very cool.
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  #24  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
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Didn't the Womens team lose to 15 year old boys?

Maybe we should pay high school soccer players more then.
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  #25  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:31 AM
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That high school game was nothing more than a scrimmage. Major League teams lose to college teams during spring training all the time. You can bet that no one wasted their energy playing a meaningless game while tuning up for games that mattered. For reference, that loss came before matches against Russia and other professional teams. I would doubt the same effort went into each.

The men's team is a disgrace. None of them can hack it on a field with the world's best players. The women's team is the team with the world's best players. Comparisons aren't even close. The women deserve the glory and the money that comes with it. Why should the men be paid to be terrible? Let them buy their own plane tickets.
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  #26  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:00 AM
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Again, imo, you are borderline needing your name out here to get into a spirited debate. Be careful.
As a business person, and from a pragmatic thought, the monies earned should be relative to the profits. However., both teams (men and women) SHOULD have equal accommodations.
I sort of preach that the money you make in life is relative to the value you bring to your audience or your employer. Pay is also relative to how many people can do your job at your skill level. That is the way people earn money (in my view). It is why 18 yrs old kids get multi multi million dollar contracts every day in sports. It is why burger flippers (I was one for years when I was younger) can only ever make a certain amount. It is because it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or professional athlete, to flip burgers. And those high paid people are generally (at least supposed to) be good ROIs.

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That high school game was nothing more than a scrimmage. Major League teams lose to college teams during spring training all the time. You can bet that no one wasted their energy playing a meaningless game while tuning up for games that mattered. For reference, that loss came before matches against Russia and other professional teams. I would doubt the same effort went into each.

The men's team is a disgrace. None of them can hack it on a field with the world's best players. The women's team is the team with the world's best players. Comparisons aren't even close. The women deserve the glory and the money that comes with it. Why should the men be paid to be terrible? Let them buy their own plane tickets.
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  #27  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:05 AM
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I would think there is room for considering why a men's tournament might bring in the money it is. I highly doubt the men's tournament receives some kind of boon from the US team's participation. People pay to see Messi and the like, not the US players. The US team is just in the tournament. The women's team IS the tournament. Their team has won 4 cups, including 2 in a row.
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2019, 12:19 PM
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"In many soccer-dominant countries, women weren't traditionally allowed or encouraged to play soccer because it was a 'man's sport.' That philosophy/sentiment hasn't existed in the United States.

That American women do so well in many sports internationally is a social commentary on our country-- and counters the recent 'U.S. as regressive' arguments of some. It also helps, that we're a large country (third largest population).

Last edited by drcy; 07-09-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:03 PM
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Why is it that we can field the best women's team in the world for a number of years, yet the men suck? Any theories out there? I suspect many more men have been playing soccer in the US for more years than girls/women.

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Old 07-09-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Why is it that we can field the best women's team in the world for a number of years, yet the men suck? Any theories out there? I suspect many more men have been playing soccer in the US for more years than girls/women.
In many soccer-dominant countries, women weren't traditionally allowed or encouraged to play soccer because it was a 'man's sport.' That philosophy/sentiment hasn't existed in the United States.

That American women do so well in many sports internationally is a social commentary on our country-- and is an argument that counters the recent 'U.S. as relatively (I said relatively not absolutely) regressive towards women' arguments of some. It also helps, that we're a large country (third largest population).

Last edited by drcy; 07-09-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:16 PM
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Someone mentioned the level of competition earlier, but I think it's actually a good point in a different light. I just don't think there is any major competition among the men in this country when it comes to soccer. I think women are much more competitive soccer players and that's why their team is made of up of higher caliber players that are able to compete globally. We don't have a large enough talent pool of men playing the sport to truly create a best of the best type of team, like say Brazil is able to do so often.

Last edited by packs; 07-09-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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  #32  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cole View Post
Here's a thought: Celebrate their achievements, which are fairly epic. Or are you just too big a pig to do that?
To be transparent, I feel the same way about the Dream Team winning gold medals in basketball. Not even a competition
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:35 PM
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Soccer is a major sport for girls in high school. For boys, soccer is a secondary sport.
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:45 PM
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A couple thoughts.

Why does everyone feel the need to immediately jump from the womens team to bashing on the men? Just celebrate the women, they deserve it.

I think people are being way too hard on the men's team. We were one of the last developed countries to start taking soccer seriously and compared to others that live and breath soccer (like England) we have fared just as good or better than most other nations. It was not until 1994 that mens soccer even really existed in the United States and if you look at our record since then, we have done just fine and are trending upwards. We just played for a gold cup on the same night as the women, played very well against a dominant Mexico team and are trending up in the sport with one of the youngest national teams.

You cant take our population as a whole in the mens game, because we divide up our athletic talent among so many other sports. Assume football and basketball dont exist and ALL our young boys play is soccer. Who knows how good athletes like Lebron James or Odell Beckham would have been at soccer if that is all they did. In these other countries that is the case. Despite what some people are saying on here, we are not even CLOSE to the laughing stock of the soccer world. We also have some really good young talent as the game starts to develop here in the U.S. and I would not be surprised if we made it to a World Cup final or even won it in my lifetime (next 40 years).

As for the women, I applaud their success and think it was great they won. Anything that is good for the game of soccer in the United States is great.

If they played the mens team and they tried their best for 90 minutes, Vegas would have to set the line at 20-0 or more. Not a disrespectful statement, just the flat out truth.

Congrats to the women, it is awesome that they are so dominant. I just can not understand why every statement anyone makes about the women has to turn into mens team bashing.
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  #35  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:59 PM
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Nevermind the other stuff; that was a very exciting tournament and a great final. My whole family got up early Sunday morning to watch. I picked up this Rapinoe Panini sticker earlier last week:



Sometimes an athlete emerges as the undisputed finest in the world; Rapinoe won the Golden Shoe and the Golden Ball in the 2019 World Cup, so she is indisputably the best woman 'footballer' in the world. Happy to add her to my modest soccer collection.
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  #36  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:05 PM
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I went to college in the late 60s and early 70s at SLU. In the 60s and 70s SLU was as dominant in soccer as UCLA was in basketball. National Champions in 59, 60, 62. 63, 65, 67, 69,70, 72 and 73. All with local players. Then other colleges began recruiting foreign players. They have never been a power since

I enjoy watching the women's team play. As for pay, my view is it should be tied to revenue generated not success on the field.
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  #37  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:39 PM
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I thought this was about playing for and representing your country rather than making gobs more money than they're making now.

From my understanding, the women players make a higher percentage than men, but ends up in less dollars because men's soccer brings in 45X more revenue than women.

It's like WNBA vs NBA salary. The average starting salary for a WNBA player is $75k vs $850k for NBA.
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  #38  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:41 PM
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Rhys--As I was reminded by Leon, I think you need your name on your post.

As for the U.S. just taking men's soccer seriously, we won two medals for soccer in the 1904 Olympics. Our team is not good, it's piss poor. We got knocked out of the 2018 World Cup by Trinidad and Tobago, a team that had lost seven games in a row. I don't know what their training facilities are like but I don't think they rival ours. We have several hundred times more people than they do. The truth is that very few people in this country care about men's soccer and if they do it is as fans of various foreign professional teams. We don't have to compete in every sport. We should just admit that as a country we don't care about men's soccer and direct the funding to sports we do care about.


"If they played the mens team and they tried their best for 90 minutes, Vegas would have to set the line at 20-0 or more. Not a disrespectful statement, just the flat out truth."

We both know this is an incredibly stupid comparison. There are physical differences which do not allow woman to match men in speed or strength. The relevant comparison is how they perform relative to their peers and here the women win and the men lose.
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  #39  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 View Post
I thought this was about playing for and representing your country rather than making gobs more money than they're making now.

From my understanding, the women players make a higher percentage than men, but ends up in less dollars because men's soccer brings in 45X more revenue than women.

It's like WNBA vs NBA salary. The average starting salary for a WNBA player is $75k vs $850k for NBA.
Patrick--Actually, it is worse in the WNBA. The rookie starting salary is under $40,000 and the max salary is about $117,000. That is why the WNBA season is the offseason for most of the stars. They make a lot more money playing in Russia and China.
Again, the revenue comes into U.S. men's soccer because people want to see the teams we play, not us. If you paid the men the same as the women you probably wouldn't lose one men's player, and even if you did it wouldn't impact the W-L record.
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  #40  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:00 PM
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3.6 billion people watched the 2018 Menís World Cup, compared that to 750 million for the 2015 womenís World Cup (and the ratings are down this year vs then). That is why they are paid what they are around the world.

Jay, you obviously have an issue with the Menís Soccer team, that being said the rest of the world cares infinitely more about the menís game than the womenís game. It may seem unfair but that is the reality.

I agree the accommodations should be the same for the two teams but the pay disparity is due to the difference in demand for the two sports. Similar to the NBA vs the WNBA... not very many people care about the WNBA and a strong argument can be made that if they werenít helped by the NBA they probably wouldnít even exist today.

You can complain about the lack of success that the men have had all you want but the reality is that they are playing a game (Menís soccer) that has many more fans in the world and have a higher rate of competition than the other game (womenís soccer). The Trinidad loss was an embarrassment for the menís team for sure but they do not lose to teams like that regularly.

Celebrate the Womenís victory, it is a source of pride for the country as a whole, I was rooting hard for them the whole time. That being said I just donít know why you have to make it a point to ridicule the menís team in the same breath.
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  #41  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:18 PM
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Rhett-I was not saying the woman's sport is more popular than the men's sport worldwide. What I was saying is that the U.S. men's team is not why it is popular. I continue to believe that both teams should be paid based on performance.
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  #42  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
That high school game was nothing more than a scrimmage. Major League teams lose to college teams during spring training all the time.
Not even close to the same thing.

We're talking about a professional All-Star team (the USWNT) losing to 14 & 15-year olds. The team they played was a U15 boys squad. Anyway that gets dressed up, it's embarrassing.
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  #43  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabe View Post
Not even close to the same thing.

We're talking about a professional All-Star team (the USWNT) losing to 14 & 15-year olds. The team they played was a U15 boys squad. Anyway that gets dressed up, it's embarrassing.
It was a game they played for fun. I don't see why they would have put any effort into it. What pleasure can a professional athlete get out of dominating high school students?
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  #44  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:57 PM
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It was a game they played for fun. I don't see why they would have put any effort into it. What pleasure can a professional athlete get out of dominating high school students?
What makes you so sure they would have dominated them? There's no evidence of it. They had a chance - and got blown out.

You think the NBA All-Stars would ever lose by 35 to 14 & 15-year olds, regardless of the circumstances? Of course not.

The "it was played for fun" is what defenders of the USWNT say to try and justify losing to a U15 boys team. It just doesn't hold up. Also, the game was intended as a way to stay sharp for international games coming up. So you're saying that, as prep for international games, they just farted around and didn't try hard?
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  #45  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:02 PM
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You may find this article interesting

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes....-very-bad-day/
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  #46  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
You may find this article interesting

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes....-very-bad-day/
Those players on the college all-star team would all have been in the NBA today at the same age they played the Dream Team. Iím not sure you can compare that team to a junior high team of stars.
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  #47  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:39 PM
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That’s an ok stance to take. My stance is games that don’t matter don’t matter. Jackie Mitchell struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig back to back in an exhibition game. How much weight gets put onto something like that? It's interesting that it happened, but ultimately it doesn't say much about the people involved.

Last edited by packs; 07-09-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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  #48  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:05 PM
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Wes Ferrell told a story about getting shelled by a semi-pro team in an 'easy money' exhibition game.
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  #49  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
You may find this article interesting

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes....-very-bad-day/
I assumed this would get brought up. That college team had Grant Hill - a Hall of Famer - and multiple all-NBA players on it. That college team would have beaten pretty much every other team in the world by 30.

And they won by 8.

The USWNT lost to a bunch of kids, most of whom will never play pro, let alone at the very, very peak of their sport. And they got blown out.

BIG difference.
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  #50  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:19 PM
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my granddaughter once beat me in nine holes of putt putt golf.
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