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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:57 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Default 1952 Topps Variations - NNOF

I recently picked this '52 Topps NNOF variation. Just curious what others thought. I will chime in with my opinion at a later date.

Z
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:05 AM
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Very neat item Zach. Is it rated A because of missing name or the auto ? Any signs of artificial removal ?

Is the deceased notification an old or new practice ?

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 07-14-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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  #3  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
I recently picked this '52 Topps NNOF variation. Just curious what others thought. I will chime in with my opinion at a later date.

Z
I don't recall ever seeing one before? Very cool, if real?

Here's mine for comparison.
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  #4  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:33 AM
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Collectors in the 50s and 60s often used an eraser to get rid of the facsimile in hopes the player would sign there. If you look closely, that appears to be the case here, although it backfired when the player signed elsewhere.
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  #5  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:47 AM
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As an aside, I got excited when I saw the red marks at the bottom until I realized it is just his jersey markings.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:12 AM
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Maybe it's just my image, but there's still the faint remains of the letter 'n'
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe it's just my image, but there's still the faint remains of the letter 'n'
You're right John, and you can still see the remnants of the bottom of the "L" from the last name, where it was too close to the bottom border of the box and couldn't be erased easily.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:24 AM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
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Looks removed to me
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:44 AM
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I just blew it up, and, for me anyways, it is very difficult to see what some of you are talking about?
Unfortunately, I couldn't save a blown up copy for you, but some of the marks on the border are in a different spot than what is on my card.

On my card, nowhere is a part of signature touching the border.

My eyes aren't the best so I am not disputing what others can see, only stating that I can't.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2017, 12:08 PM
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Ok Dale, I blew it up to different levels and snipped it so you can see what I'm seeing when it's magnified. It starts off with a regular card magnified to 200%. Then your card at 200%, then 300%, then 400%. You can clearly still set remnants of the "t" at the end of his name as well as other parts when compared to the regular example.
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File Type: jpg 1952 Box Regular.JPG (53.1 KB, 228 views)
File Type: jpg 1952 Box 200.JPG (34.1 KB, 228 views)
File Type: jpg 1952 Box.JPG (37.2 KB, 228 views)
File Type: jpg 1952 Box 400.JPG (77.4 KB, 227 views)
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  #11  
Old 07-14-2017, 12:23 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Al,

I do not see any evidence of the sig being erased.

Z
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  #12  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:07 PM
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I don't know. But the name box's left border (middle), bottom border (left middle) and the letters H and A (bottom portion) are not completely black. If somebody told me a signature was there and then erased, those areas would support their case (IMO).
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBesse27 View Post
Collectors in the 50s and 60s often used an eraser to get rid of the facsimile in hopes the player would sign there. If you look closely, that appears to be the case here, although it backfired when the player signed elsewhere.
I have seen this on other 52s also....I agree, the Lenhardt card in this case appears to be neatly erased (at least neater than the erasing on the card below) with the intent of having the player sign in the box.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:21 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
I have seen this on other 52s also....I agree, the Lenhardt card in this case appears to be neatly erased (at least neater than the erasing on the card below) with the intent of having the player sign in the box.
I really like it when the signature is in the box....i will be on the look out on the few that exist
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
Ok Dale, I blew it up to different levels and snipped it so you can see what I'm seeing when it's magnified. It starts off with a regular card magnified to 200%. Then your card at 200%, then 300%, then 400%. You can clearly still set remnants of the "t" at the end of his name as well as other parts when compared to the regular example.
Thanks, David.

I can, now, clearly make out the "T", especially at the end of his name as you mention.

I assume either the TPG's missed it or the "A", authentic is for the signature only?
I Googled the crap out of NNOF 52 Topps and could find no other info on them anywhere so it likely stands that this card's signature was erased/removed as has been previously suggested.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:29 PM
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Dale---you posted about one . See Ted's post # 6

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=216101

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 07-14-2017 at 03:31 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:38 PM
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Dale---you posted about one . See Ted's post # 6

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=216101
Guess I forgot about that one, Al?
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  #18  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:00 PM
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We is old
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:37 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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I also believe the name was removed. I think back in the early days, this must have been common....as collectors tried to obtain autographs in the "blank" space and they deliberately erased the mechanical autos.

This card was purchased with other '52 autographed cards, 1 of which was clearly erased. The others are very difficult to detect. There must be more NNOF cards in existence....just wonder where they are....

Z
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:00 PM
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We is old
Yes, we is!
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:24 AM
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Zach - There are MANY cards out there with the names erased. I think at one point I probably had over 30-40 of them. One collection I bought - the guy erased every single name - probably with the intent of getting the real autograph.

If you look long enough - you will find many more of these. (Unless I tossed mine in a bin somewhere and forgot them - I'm pretty sure I sold them and put them back in the market place).

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  #22  
Old 08-07-2017, 08:29 AM
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I noticed a couple NNOF cards in this current LOTG auction.

Although most still retain the factory sig, the odd card has been erased and the player has signed in that area.

The more I see these signed 52's, the more I am interested in them.
http://loveofthegameauctions.com/catalog.aspx
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2017, 11:12 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
I noticed a couple NNOF cards in this current LOTG auction.

Although most still retain the factory sig, the odd card has been erased and the player has signed in that area.

The more I see these signed 52's, the more I am interested in them.
http://loveofthegameauctions.com/catalog.aspx
Irv,

Yes, they are interesting. They all come from the Texas Find from the estate of a deceased collector that had managed to obtain 600+ autographs, including some very hard to find ones.

I believe all were graded as well....
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2017, 11:28 AM
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I know who found that find
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2017, 12:57 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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You da man Al . Tell us the unwritten story. I think it is interesting.

Z
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
Irv,

Yes, they are interesting. They all come from the Texas Find from the estate of a deceased collector that had managed to obtain 600+ autographs, including some very hard to find ones.

I believe all were graded as well....
Wow, that's pretty incredible when you think of it!

Thanks for sharing the info, Zach,,, and Al.
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2017, 02:57 PM
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The gentleman involved died unexpectedly in 2007. He was not a transplant but a lifelong San Antonio resident. San Antonio is basketball and football town. I have not come across many ( any) hard core baseball card collectors here and our paths never crossed despite the fact I had been in SA since 1995

His wife left his card room alone for years and one day at a Bible class heard my wife talking about us going on a trip to Arizona to see some spring games and meet with some fellow card collectors. She asked my wife if I would review what she had and see if I knew how she could dispose of it. I thought it would be a bunch of modern stuff, and there was every major league and minor league set you can think of through 2007, but he also had full Topps and Bowman runs and some older football and basketball sets.

In addition to a full 52 set, he also had a good portion of a second set that was autographed, included an autographed Campos black star. He had a lot of autographed balls and photos too and numerous old hobby publications

Most was organized into sets but much of it was packed in drawers and suitcases awaiting his retirement The volume of material was staggering. Each wall of his study were lined with shelves full of binders, and there was a also a closet stuffed with stuff. It was a lot of fun going through it all.

I put her in touch with Al C from Love Of The Game and after meeting with him here she chose to sell if off through his auctions. I doubt I will ever come across anything like it in San Antonio again, and it was a good tutorial for my wife in what to do with my stuff.
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:52 AM
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It had to have been erased. Because the black ink was it's own printers plate, and if it were an error, I'd expect to see some of the black border missing too. The fact that JUST the signature is absent, but every other element from that printing layer is intact tells me it was removed.

Now for comparison, consider the House Yellow Tiger variation, which is a product of the ink not being applied evenly to one of the print plates. You can see this effect in that part of House's neck is green. It indicates that the dye layer was not applied evenly.

Basically, the absence of the signature is too perfect. It was erased after the fact.
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2017, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
The gentleman involved died unexpectedly in 2007. He was not a transplant but a lifelong San Antonio resident. San Antonio is basketball and football town. I have not come across many ( any) hard core baseball card collectors here and our paths never crossed despite the fact I had been in SA since 1995

His wife left his card room alone for years and one day at a Bible class heard my wife talking about us going on a trip to Arizona to see some spring games and meet with some fellow card collectors. She asked my wife if I would review what she had and see if I knew how she could dispose of it. I thought it would be a bunch of modern stuff, and there was every major league and minor league set you can think of through 2007, but he also had full Topps and Bowman runs and some older football and basketball sets.

In addition to a full 52 set, he also had a good portion of a second set that was autographed, included an autographed Campos black star. He had a lot of autographed balls and photos too and numerous old hobby publications

Most was organized into sets but much of it was packed in drawers and suitcases awaiting his retirement The volume of material was staggering. Each wall of his study were lined with shelves full of binders, and there was a also a closet stuffed with stuff. It was a lot of fun going through it all.

I put her in touch with Al C from Love Of The Game and after meeting with him here she chose to sell if off through his auctions. I doubt I will ever come across anything like it in San Antonio again, and it was a good tutorial for my wife in what to do with my stuff.
Great story, Al. Curious, did you offer or purchase anything from her? It would have been hard not too seeing that size of a collection.

Any idea how she made out at LOTG? Hopefully good!
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
The gentleman involved died unexpectedly in 2007. He was not a transplant but a lifelong San Antonio resident. San Antonio is basketball and football town. I have not come across many ( any) hard core baseball card collectors here and our paths never crossed despite the fact I had been in SA since 1995

His wife left his card room alone for years and one day at a Bible class heard my wife talking about us going on a trip to Arizona to see some spring games and meet with some fellow card collectors. She asked my wife if I would review what she had and see if I knew how she could dispose of it. I thought it would be a bunch of modern stuff, and there was every major league and minor league set you can think of through 2007, but he also had full Topps and Bowman runs and some older football and basketball sets.

In addition to a full 52 set, he also had a good portion of a second set that was autographed, included an autographed Campos black star. He had a lot of autographed balls and photos too and numerous old hobby publications

Most was organized into sets but much of it was packed in drawers and suitcases awaiting his retirement The volume of material was staggering. Each wall of his study were lined with shelves full of binders, and there was a also a closet stuffed with stuff. It was a lot of fun going through it all.

I put her in touch with Al C from Love Of The Game and after meeting with him here she chose to sell if off through his auctions. I doubt I will ever come across anything like it in San Antonio again, and it was a good tutorial for my wife in what to do with my stuff.
Interesting story, thanks Al. I know some of the people that gave Al C advice on how to dispose of the '52 autographs. He had some rare autographs in the 600+ auto's - meaning he had to have started collecting autographs early on prior to the passing of many of the players in the set. In particular he had 2 auto's of what many consider to be the hardest autograph to obtain - Bill Meyers #387 - who resigned after the '52 season & passed shortly thereafter.

Here is a write up on those 2 cards from LOTG

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Sig...-LOT13198.aspx

Z

Last edited by Zach Wheat; 08-10-2017 at 07:00 PM.
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  #31  
Old 08-10-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
Interesting story, thanks Al. I know some of the people that gave Al C advice on how to dispose of the '52 autographs. He had some rare autographs in the 600+ auto's - meaning he had to have started collecting autographs early on prior to the passing of many of the players in the set. In particular he had 2 auto's of what many consider to be the hardest autograph to obtain - Bill Meyers #387 - who resigned after the '52 season & passed shortly thereafter.

Here is a write up on those 2 cards from LOTG

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Sig...-LOT13198.aspx

Z
I seen that card a few days ago and wondered why they called it the impossible card. The write up explained it and explained why it's current bid was so high. Not sure where that card will end up, price wise, but my gut tells me it is going to finish a lot higher than where it currently is.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:57 AM
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One thing you have to love is the speculation of hobby enthusiasts. Last auction the Fannin was impossible, per one collector, however there were two graded at the time. This auction it's the Meyer, also two currently graded.

Howie Fox died in '55, the earliest if the 52 guys, and there are 5 graded examples! That being said, I was told for years the Meyer couldnt exist, and now 2 have surfaced. There ARE still 16 cards from the set not graded by psa/dna. Now we can speculate THOSE don't exist...for now
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  #33  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:56 AM
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I did not offer to buy anything Irv. Felt a little conflicted about that it given her situation and how I was put in contact with her. I had all the Topps and Bowman regular sets and thought anything unique should go to auction to determine it's real market worth. I had a blast looking through the stuff. She offered to let pick some stuff for my time but given I am retired I almost felt I should pay her for the chance to rummage through it all. She debated selling it en mass to someone or putting stuff up for auctions, and chose auctions

In the end she sent me debit cards for a high end restaurant here and a couple of autographed Cardinal pictures ( I am originally from St Louis).

By the way, Al C was great. Came down and met with her described what he could do and how he would do it. She came to trust him and was happy with the results
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
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One thing you have to love is the speculation of hobby enthusiasts. Last auction the Fannin was impossible, per one collector, however there were two graded at the time. This auction it's the Meyer, also two currently graded.

Howie Fox died in '55, the earliest if the 52 guys, and there are 5 graded examples! That being said, I was told for years the Meyer couldnt exist, and now 2 have surfaced. There ARE still 16 cards from the set not graded by psa/dna. Now we can speculate THOSE don't exist...for now
Just to close the loop here from the initial post, my NNOF came from this auction. I suspected the "NNOF" was probably erased, but wasn't sure. I have perhaps 5 NNOF which came from different sources who were long time collectors.

Ted, do autograph collectors pay a premium for the autographed cards with variations?

Thanks again for all the input.

Z
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I did not offer to buy anything Irv. Felt a little conflicted about that it given her situation and how I was put in contact with her. I had all the Topps and Bowman regular sets and thought anything unique should go to auction to determine it's real market worth. I had a blast looking through the stuff. She offered to let pick some stuff for my time but given I am retired I almost felt I should pay her for the chance to rummage through it all. She debated selling it en mass to someone or putting stuff up for auctions, and chose auctions

In the end she sent me debit cards for a high end restaurant here and a couple of autographed Cardinal pictures ( I am originally from St Louis).

By the way, Al C was great. Came down and met with her described what he could do and how he would do it. She came to trust him and was happy with the results
That's easy to understand.

Glad she made out good with the auction and was happy with the result.
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