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  #11  
Old 08-16-2017, 10:53 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
#9

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...y-of-his-debut

9. Although many media organizations and the Topps baseball card company often referred to him as “Bob,” Clemente adamantly rejected that name and repeatedly insisted he be called Roberto.

Thanks Irv, enjoyed reading that. I did not realize he perished on the plane he rented....and was only on the flight because the previous shipments he sent over were hijacked. What an incredible person.

Z
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
Is how would someone named bob like being called Roberto?!
I have a friend that we have called Roberto, he doesn't mind it. Bob Prince was close friends with Roberto and always called him Bob or Bobby. I think that the root of the problem is the racism and bigotry against Spanish speaking people that Roberto faced when he came to the continental United States from Puerto Rico. Some of those media members that called him Bob in their articles, in the same article made fun of his broken English.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2017, 11:42 AM
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This graph shows Topps was really in the minority during this time.

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  #14  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:01 PM
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Neat graph. Extra insulting is that they happily named his caucasian contemporaries by whatever name they preferred (e.g., Sandy Koufax rather than Sanford, in fact even putting Sandy in quotes on his '55 card, so it's not like they didn't know it wasn't his formal name), but for Clemente they assign him a name he doesn't want to replace his actual name. That was f'd-up.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:03 PM
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Also weird is that other players with Latin names tended to keep them on their cards these same years. Example: Luis Aparicio.

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  #16  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:13 PM
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Racism, plain and simple.


see also 'Chief' Bender, etc.
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:04 PM
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Default "Bob" vs "Roberto" Clemente

Quote:
Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
Racism, plain and simple.





see also 'Chief' Bender, etc.


Yet Jacoby Ellsbury's nickname is Chief as he had that on his Player's Weekend jersey...just sayin'...

Jacoby Ellsbury: "Chief"
Ellsbury is part Navajo, and he is honoring his heritage this weekend with a nickname a lot of his teammates have called him over the years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb...names.amp.html


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Last edited by Big Six; 08-31-2017 at 08:05 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Six View Post
Yet Jacoby Ellsbury's nickname is Chief as he had that on his Player's Weekend jersey...just sayin'...

Jacoby Ellsbury: "Chief"
Ellsbury is part Navajo, and he is honoring his heritage this weekend with a nickname a lot of his teammates have called him over the years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb...names.amp.html


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It's understandable that not every member of a given minority has an issue with race-specific nicknames.

I'm Guessing that it is also true that Jacob Ellsbury's personal connection to his cultural past may not be as strong as those who, in the first half of the 20th century (at least) were the objects of far worse abuse than the playful 'Chief' called out Ellsbury's way.

IMO, the root of racism is not in the actual word, but rather the intent behind that word.

I doubt very seriously if Jacoby's teammates are aiming to demean him by calling him that and his choosing to use it for the 'nickname event', indicates that.
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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson

MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
It's understandable that not every member of a given minority has an issue with race-specific nicknames.



I'm Guessing that it is also true that Jacob Ellsbury's personal connection to his cultural past may not be as strong as those who, in the first half of the 20th century (at least) were the objects of far worse abuse than the playful 'Chief' called out Ellsbury's way.



IMO, the root of racism is not in the actual word, but rather the intent behind that word.



I doubt very seriously if Jacoby's teammates are aiming to demean him by calling him that and his choosing to use it for the 'nickname event', indicates that.


Completely agree. My softball buddies all call me "Mick" (I'm Irish and a McCarthy) and I take no offense...surely things would be different 100+ years ago as Mick was a negative term. Intent makes a difference. Just want to point out that we also have the power to dictate certain things. Ellsbury wears Chief as a badge of honor...hard to turn that around and take it in a negative connotation as he owns that nickname. Guess that's the way I look at team names like Braves and Redskins. I see them as being homages and something to take pride in, not racist. But I digress...


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I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix.
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  #20  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:23 PM
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Default "Bob" vs "Roberto" Clemente

BTW...Bender, too, embraced his nickname...had it emblazoned on his tombstone...so I think he didn't necessarily see it as racist...




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I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix.

Last edited by Big Six; 08-31-2017 at 08:24 PM.
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