Tuxedo and Trolley ads are NO good!

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Posted By: dan mckee

This guys sports ads are fakes, careful friends.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-Christy-Mathewson-NY-Giants-Tuxedo-Cardboard-Sign_W0QQitemZ330085044037QQihZ014QQcategoryZ50133 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Worst dealer on ebay...I turned him over to ebay a couple years back for listing magazine cutouts as "Signs" and they didn't stop him from doing it. This was after I asked him to stop doing it and he wrote back a not so nice reply.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

It's pretty amazing the frequency in which this guy repeatedly lists obvious fakes or "misrepresented" items. He would have trouble keeping a spot at a flea market, yet eBay continues to turn a blind eye.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Here's another seller with a crapload of fakes.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtheolestuffQQhtZ-1

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Posted By: David Smith

Dan,

The scumbag that you listed looks eerily similiar to this ******* (eBay seller ID Acofind)

Item number: 160082562894

David

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Yep....there's a bunch of them out there now. Ebay is truly the wild west and you better know your stuff or you are going to get burned. I've turned in a bunch of people who only sell this kind of crap and ebay doesn't care....yet I can list a 1950s cap gun and it gets canned by ebay because it doesn't have a red tip in the end of it.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Reminds me of the Cheers episode where Cliff's long lost dad said he had to leave the country
as his line of work had gotten him into a bit of trouble with the law.
"What line of work are you in?," Cliff asked.
"Real estate fraud."

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Posted By: David Smith

Dan,

No kidding. My mom listed a vintage Elgin wristwatch and eBay pulled the listing because the company who owns the rights complained. Something about a breach of VeRO rights. Yet when I did a completed auction search for the past 15 days, four other Elgin watches that were very similiar came up.

So, eBay will pull a $6 dollar listing but lets these creeps sells hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of repro or fake crap each month. This is the negative side of a public company, they have to keep their earnings up so the analysts will be happy each quarter.

David

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I relisted my cap gun with a skittles package rolled up and stuffed into the barrel, and it sold with no problems.

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Posted By: Rich Mueller

Actually I believe 2 of the 3 sellers are the same person using a different eBay ID. If you do a thorough Google search and some eBay Marketplace searches for similar items, you can discover a little more history.

We ran a short article on this awhile back.


Essentially, we discovered they are all located within driving distance of each other (Indiana/Ohio border). They are very careful in how they word their listings--not actually guaranteeing the items to be of a certain vintage but presenting them that way. They are apparently willing to refund $ upon return of an item to further avoid the eBay police. I just heard from an experienced hobbyist last week who bought one under the belief it was an original so they are fooling more than just casual fans or collectors. We'll try to follow up again soon.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You can tell that one is fake from a trolley car away!

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Posted By: Dave Williams

How can you tell it is fake?

To quote the Who...."I really want to know".

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Posted By: barrysloate

I've had and seen many originals and the color lithography is bright and crisp. Fakes tend to be less distinct and have that washed out look. You need to see an original so that you know what they are supposed to look like.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Rich I am very interested in the information you have. I have filed an FBI report and tried to state the urgency because of the amount and the decent workmanship of these fakes. You are correct! All within driving distance I believe. Indiana, Michigan and Ohio. Anything I can do to help/ Please let me know. I never heard back from the FBI. These sellers are burning good collectors as well and as stated above in this thread. It is very sad that ebay just doesn't care.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The collector's key for something like the Tuxedo Mathewson is that it is so rare and expensive, you
be due diligent when one pops up on eBay. It's not unlike a T206 Ty Cobb Brand Tobacco. If you saw that
card on eBay by a seller you don't know, you'd automatically have one hundred questions about the sale--
is it real? How does the seller really know it's real? Where'd he get it?

An original Tuxedo Mathewson is like a $10,000-$20,000 or more item. A seller would charge
more than $6.95 (with insurance optional!) on an item he believed was worth $10,000-$20,000 or
more. Look at the seller's shipping/insurance charge, as that tells you all you need to know
about whether he thinks it's original or reprint. I don't know about you, but I think I'd make
insurance mandatory on a $20,000 item.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Well put David

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Posted By: Matt

This isn't the trolley car version, but it's real. As you can see, there is a big color difference. Authentic ones are much more vibrant. The fakes colors are not accurate and they do not appear to be printed on the correct paper stock. It's ridiculous that they're out there being passed off as real and ebay's allowing it.

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Posted By: Dave

After reading this post about the fake Tuxedo sign I started making some phone calls around town here. I'm pretty sure one or all of these sellers sets up at Ceasars Creek and turtle Creek flea markets every weekend. I once approached one of them in 2003 and told him he was selling unauthentic signs and photos. I was lucky to get out of there without being mobbed. As soon as I showed him why the particular photo was a fake he jumped my sh*t like the world was about to end. I told him if the piece he had was real that it was worth thousands, and that as far as I know there were only 3 or 4 photos like this one that were original. then other flea marketers came over to see what the yelling was about and they joined in to swear that the items they sell are "as real as they can be" I now know these guys ( one is a woman) by sight now.
In a prior post I talked about a self proclaimed card doctor who sets up at Ceasars Creek, and Turtle Creek fleam markets. I believe he is loosely involved with these ebay sellers, as every sunday I go to the flea market he is alwasy set up next to the "antique sign people"
pretty simple why Ebay hasn't or won't do anything to these people unless contacted by some law enforcement agency somewhere. Ebay makes huge amounts of money off of these people. they keep Ebay alive and viable every quarter since they have been in existence. I started on Ebay in it's infancy, and it has always been a haven and refuge for dsihonest flea marketers, and types like that. It started as basically an online garage sale, and hasn't really changed save the scope and size of the site now.
I have reported over 50 scammers, shillers, guys using multiple accounts, etc...since Dec.25th 2006, and Ebay has only acted on 2-3 of them. one of those guys is selling again, but apparently got his wife to sign up for an account. I alerted Ebay to this as well, but nothing has been done yet.
My advice for all who buy Tobacco cards on ebay is simple. Do your own research on the sellers. With a little looking you can gleen info on sellers that may alert you to shill bidding activity. Right now it is rampant, and most auctions I participate in I believe have some shilling. Never buy cards or items in the Sports memorabilia categories if the seller won't respond to your questions in a timely manner about the item. Here's an example...there was a piece listed in a bizarre category 2 weeks ago. It was a plaque or a piece of wood with perfect rows of tobacco cards pasted to it. the seller claimed that it was bought at an "estate" sale and was authentic in every way. I emailed the seller 12 times for close up pictures, and on the last day of the auction with 3 hours left he emailed me back to say he was sorry but there wasn't enough time to take the pictures. The best thing I've ever heard from a counterfieter was a guy we called "Wild Card Joe" here in the southern Ohio area. He used to sit at the monthly Hara shows, and wish that he could duplicate the type set on a T206 card.....wonder why he wanted to do that. a while later Wild Card Joe was busted by the FBI in the mid 90's counterfiet football card scam that went on here in Ohio

here's a question for board members who have been here longer than me.....is it appropriate to name Ebayers who we have busted/ and or suspect are listing bad items or are cheating people ? I for one would gladly contribute to the list that will undoubtedly be produced.

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Posted By: leon

You may post anything that you know of that is fraudulent with names, addresses, phone numbers, pictures.....whatever you want. The only rule is that you will need to put your full name by the posting or a good email address. Make sure you are correct too as you can be held legally liable for what you say.....Otherwise, go for it...It can only help the hobby.....best regards
ps...I too have bought several fake items on ebay...but have only been stuck with 1-2

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Posted By: Dave

thanks for the information Leon. I'll make sure I can back up anything I post. I'm not sure if I've bought any fake items yet on ebay, but I have bought a fair share of altered cards.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Jackwads set up here in Louisville at flea markets. Cracker Jack reprints, signs and posters all reprints, etc. SAME CRAP.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Matt -

That Mathewson is phenomenal! I have been looking for one for a while. If you ever want to part with it let me know.

The Lucky Strike trolley car ads come up in the major auctions every year. I picked up 2 this year from Scott Gaynor. They can be found, and as Barry said, the printing is crisp no matter how damaged they are.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Here's another fake -another one from the South Carolina area...probably a protege of Faye's Southern Memories.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ty-cobb-baseball-card-board-store-sign_W0QQitemZ130077750686QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50129 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130 077750686

A good tip when you see a seller selling something like this is to look at other stuff they sell and have sold in the past....usually you will find a lot of Black Americana, native american, advertising standees, advertising calendars. This person is also selling KKK items....a Flea Marketeer's Dream.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Good tips Dan. Another one with the calendars is to check the year and the days of the week. Sometimes the forger is so sloppy they put the wrong year calendar on and the days of the week don't match!

The bric a brac baron has a number of IDs and everything is bogus.