Curious: Opinions on KitYoungCards

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Every time I see an auction up by Kit Young Cards, their opening price is often up to twice the card's value. Any idea what is the story? Anyone have any dealings with them? They have over 5k feedback, so they must sell some items, but I've NEVER seen anything of theirs with an opeing bid that I could ever call even remotely reasonable. Example follows, a Matty Venezuela Retirado with bad paper loss on back. It ain't worth $100...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1574387425

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Posted By: Rob

They seen to be very high on all of there items even if you look in their catalog. Yes 5000 feedback but it must have taken over 5,000,000,000,000, auctions.

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Posted By: jay behrens

on rare occassions they ahve cards that are close to a reasonable price. I remember him offering a e102 Lajoie that I almost bought.

Jay

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Posted By: jeff s

yes, they are high. I'm not sure how their costs work out, but I have to imagine that they are using eBay auctions for publicity/list-building. When I did once buy something (a t3 keeler for $100) I was immediately placed on their mailing list (which I hadn't been on for a couple of years).

KY operates a retail business, and his eBay minimums are usually exactly what his retail prices are in the catalog.

However, he does often lower prices after they don't meet minimum a couple of times. I believe the Keeler I bought had started at a retail of $250, been offered on eBay at $200 or $150, and then offered at $100.

And, I gather that he will work with you on price if you drop him an e-mail. (I haven't tried it.)

It's also worth noting that they do sell a decent (though not large) percentage of what they offer -- it's just pre-war that they WAY overprice. Last time I did a seller search there were ~500 auctions going, at least 100 of which had a bid.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

back in the early '80s, when i was building my '53 Bowman set. Kit was very helpful. Then I got a letter from Nacho, saying he would be my special hekper. And for a while, he was. Galled me when they got some Mayos in, and I bought a nice Mayop Derlahanty with one crease, nice borders, for $1300. But mostly now, I don't get much from him.

I remember replacing my Cobb red baclground with a card from him..what could be safer than KY? It was vg/ex/ex, with one crease goingh from the top center down to the top of Cobbs head. The corners and borders looked great. When it came, I saw it had been trimmed, top and bottom; I was real disappointed. Didn't return it, for some reason. Maybe because i didn't notice the trimming for about 6 months...

I have never thought his prices, in general, were too high. I think he tends to go high on stuff he doesn't see very often. But that Delahanty was fine...

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Posted By: Marc S.

They are one of the bigger retail outfits for cards. Access to a lot of "collector-grade" cards, with much of it fairly high priced. You have to remember that in this hobby, a very large percentage of people are still not shopping on Ebay and the Internet. They have market presence and history as a dealer. You don't have to buy from them -- but usually they are a decent enough outfit. For what it's worth (and I'll say worse rather than better), I would say that Mr. Mint is basically the head buyer for Kit Young -- keeping the best stuff for his auctions and the collector-grade stuff going to Kit and his catalog. The few times that I have seen some 1950s commons graded PSA 8 from Kit on Ebay, the starting prices were reasonable.

Marc

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Posted By: Eric Eichelkraut

is banking on Dan, is his name (or their name) for the higher prices he commands. Since he's been around for a long time as a seller, and probably banks on his reputation as a straight laced honest seller, he probably figures that he'll start his auctions just above what anyone else would sell it at, because he can. I don't know KY, but I just bought something from him, for the first time, and the deal went really smoothly. I think I paid a tad bit more than I would have liked to have paid (I do that occasionally anyways!), but I was satisfied in the end. As a small-time seller, I think I share Kit's mentality, in that as a trusted and well-known "good guy", he retains the right to push his price bar just a little higher. On the other side of the coin though, I think on average he starts his auctions way too high, and can't understand why people spend the money they do with him, when, if patience is used, it can be found on Ebay for much less.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I have found him to be making hay off of a long and early reputation. His grading, which used to be great, has slipped a lot. What used to be "vg-ex" to Kit is now "ex" or even "ex+"(about the way everyone else grades!). Still, his catalogues are worth looking through.

I had heard the story about Mr. Mint before, and it certainly explains how one dealer could have so many--what you call- "collector"-- grade cards in one catalogue.

Guess if he reads this, I won't be getting any more calls from Nacho when something good comes in. That Mayo Delahanty never made it to a catalogue...

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Posted By: jeff s

I meant to mention that in my last post. Julie is right - KY's grading is a solid 1/2 grade too high, sometimes a full grade too high. What's bizarre is that while the grading is somewhat inconsistent, he uses a lot of inventive grades like vg/vg-ex, or gd/g-vg. I can't confirm that his grading used to be better, but I can confirm it ain't that great now. I have to imagine that the people doing the grading aren't always the same, and there has been some turnover.

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Posted By: Jonathan Perry

Just figured I would offer my opinion on Kit Young's prices. I belive his prices are so high because he has to protect his retail business. He has spent 15-20 years building his retail clients, and now does not want to lose them to e-bay and other online auctions. I am sure he has several repeat customers that buy only from him and his catoluges (except for a card show here and there.) If you look at any retail monthly catoluge the prices always seem higher than e-bay, same goes for Wayne Varner and Steve Verkman.

For example if somone is looking for a particular card lets say a T3 turkey red and they see it in Wayne Varners catologue for $500 then a couple of months later they see Kit Young has one for $525. A month later Kit Young has the same card on e-bay with an opening bid of $500. If the person wants that card bad enough they will have to pay. Now if Kit Young puts the card on e-bay for $9.99 with no reserve it could sell in one week for $350. But to Kit Young it is worth it to pay the $3-5 in listing fees, if it sells it sells, if not he got some cheap publicity. However he now is able to get that same buyer to buy from his catolouge at the price he sets. He is able to hold on to his inventory until he gets the price he wants because he has the $$$ in the bank.
Another reason his prices are high is if he has a buch of that same item in inventory. If he sees a card selling for $100 and he wants to get $300 for it, he has to spread the word that this is a $300 card and not a $100 card. He has a very good marketing stadegy howver it does not work well if you are trying to generate cash quickly. It works well if you have a lot of cash and want to slowly make more money as I am sure everyone wishes they were in the position to.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...and, i see the points everyone has made here. I just think that Kit Young, dealing on eBay, must be counting on novice bidders to get those dollars. I certainly wouldn't pay what KY asks, and I don't think many would who are "in the know". I simply won't pay another 50-100% above what the market bears just to buy a card from KY. i literally see cards at auction go for x-dollars, and I see KY run the same card with similar grade/comparison/condition (or perhaps even a touch worse) for 1.5X or 2X. All the time.

I'm not meaning to be critical. It just seems kinda self-defeating. The most successful auctions I see start at a dollar and they let the market bear it up. And, it does. I stay clear of these high-opening-bid auctions...and, i generally stay clear of reserve auctions, too. They often end up being a waste of time, b/c the reserve is often more than the card is worth.

I guess i just wnated to understand KY's reasoning b/c i see his auctions so frequently...thanks for the input everyone!

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Posted By: leon

Once you have been burnt by an auction only going to half it's real worth, then sell because there was no reserve, you might change your mind. I used to think the same way as you. Now I don't. I am not picking at you just giving my opinion on that aspect. best regards. BTW, Ole Kit made some serious bucks off our man "Rocket dude" ....not that I looked at his buying habits like the rest of ya'll

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...but, eBay user "irishhosta" is the same way. Notoriously starts auctions with way-high prices. I've never thought any of his/her opening bids were anywhere even close to reasonable...

-dan

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Posted By: leon

I have bought from this, somewhat dubious, ebayer many times. Always good, collectible grade, material at mostly reasonable prices. Sometimes they want a few bucks too much, like most people in business, but always a smooth transaction and excellent communication. regards all....

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Posted By: Cy

I always wondered how Kit Young, and even Bill Henderson, make money with their ebay auctions. Both seem to place many cards with higher prices on ebay and with little results. The fees that they pay seem astounding. However, both of these men are very shrewd businessmen. What we may not be able to see, I am sure they are able to see a positive to their so called madness and, in the long run, do very well with these auctions/advertisements.

Cy

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...I think there must be a method to their madness, else why continue the madness...

That's why I asked and started this thread. I brought up Irishhosta later because Irishhosta jsut put a couple more Matty's up on eBay for aution. Both way overpriced opening bids. I typically see IH put stuff up that has very visible creases, at best a grade-2, always starting the bid at a grade-3 or higher price. And, it leaves me scratching my head (which is not good because their is no hair there for cushion or protection!!!)

Look at IH's 3 auctions now: 1576601240 (and) 1576600645 (and) 1576488341. All three creased and worn, selling (starting prices) for what you'd expect to pay for a card at (at least) a full grade higher than any of these will ever see (outside of PRO or AAA). Granted, I only look at Matty's (caveat) -- so, maybe IH has sold some Johnsons or Cobbs or whatevers that weren't like these cards. But, this is all I ever see this seller put up in the Matty column. And I always seem to say "oy...maybe HALF that much..." and move on.

Again, I'm not being critical. Criminy, we all want to sell something for 2X what it is worth, and buy the same thing for 1/2X. But, with eBay's fees and such, it seems counterproductive and unrealistic...and, I kinda wonder what I'm missing. But, I assume that a more unwary buyer might be whom they are hoping will snap these things up. Who knows...? Heck, I'll ask Carl Sagan if I ever see him...

-dan

PS: Everyone on the board have a great Halloween!!

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Posted By: Mark

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but Kit Young produces a catalog (it may be a quarterly catalog) that lists tons and tons of material. Most of it is off grade stuff (VG to EX), with some higher stuff thrown in. But most of the catalog has very reasonable prices.

I just got his Christmas catalog with tons of 30%-50% off.

Mark

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Posted By: runscott

I don't find Irishhosta to be dubious at all - I have bought lots of cards from Diane, all at good prices, and as you said, all extremely smooth transactions. She is also a very friendly and prompt communicator.

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Posted By: leon

du·bi·ous Pronunciation Key (db-s, dy-)
adj.
Fraught with uncertainty or doubt; undecided.
Arousing doubt; doubtful: a dubious distinction.
Of questionable character: dubious profits.

That is what dubious means....and I used it correctly thank you.....I was referring to the mystery (arousing doubt) surrounding the link between Irishhosta and BMW....that they will not publicly talk about.....I also made sure, as you stated for me again, that I have absolutely no problem doing biz with them.....regards

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Posted By: runscott

I was just checking to see if you were so bored that you would reply! I wasn't even dubious about it

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Hi All, I have recently sold all the T205's I waas willing to sell to Kit Young, and I received very fair prices that you would receieve through ebay without all the fees. I am attaching the email he sent after buying one of my T205 auctions.

hello again- WE NEED SOME MORE T205 IN VG TO EX PLUS, MINOR CREASING OK, BUT NOTHING ACROSS FACE--WE WILL BUY WHAT YOU HAVE, WHETHER IT'S 2-3 OR DOZENS OR MORE--OR PERHAPS YOU KNOW SOMEONE THAT HAS SOME OF THESE YOU COULD BUY--WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BUY THESE IN THE $20-30 RANGE, DEPENDING ON PRECISE GRADE.

LET ME KNOW- WE EXPECT TO BE A BUYER OF THESE FOR 3-4 MONTHS THANKS KIT YOUNG

I think this is a good chance to get a good price if you are willing to let some of your T205's go. I hated to let my T205s go but with my other interests and the good prices being paid what the hell, there's always more where they came from.

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Posted By: TBob

Kit is gearing up to dump a bunch of off grade T205s to Topps for another giveaway or whatever you call the inclusion of these vintage cards as premiums that appear in regular Topps packages.

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Posted By: TBob

which hasn't been mentioned is that some times "newbies" hit the ebay board and have a quick trigger finger on vintage cards without really knowing the true value of cards and might enter a bid on one of these "too-high" minimum bid cards. I have seen it happen over and over. Plus factor in the morons who are bidding astronomical prices for libertyforall's pieces of paper torn from magazines and there may be some method to their seeming madness.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

In Lee's posting, he prints an e-mail from KitYoung which, among other things, says:

"...WE NEED SOME MORE T205 IN VG TO EX PLUS, MINOR CREASING OK, BUT NOTHING ACROSS FACE...WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BUY THESE IN THE $20-30 RANGE, DEPENDING ON PRECISE GRADE..."

What are they talking about here? I know a VG Matty T-205 will command over $300 easy... An EX, way more - close to a Grand.

They are willing to give $20 for one? Um, hello...look at me! (Guy over here waving) I'll buy a dozen or more from you at VG or better for $20 each.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Let's get realistic Dan. He is not talking about HOFers. If you watch T205 common prices he is willing to pay over what they go for on ebay. The cards I offered him over the email were at prices I was happy with and they agreed right away.

I don't mean to pick on you specifically Dan, but unless you follow the history of a thread in question, too many of the board members tend to draw conclusions with out any thinking or background.

Once again Dan I am not picking on you, just a statement in general