Mantle

[sicollector1954]

Local auction coming up has this ball....no COA...was hoping to hear some opinions....I know these get faked a lot....sorry for bad pic but it is the only one available. What you say here will tell me even to go or not! Thanks for any help.....

[Sophiedog]

No Good...Really Bad

[sicollector1954]

THANKS!!!!!
One is all I needed...

[kvnkvnkvn]

After watching the Mr. Counterfeit video, I'm not sure I trust my own autograph anymore...

[Fuddjcal]

save yourself a trip, It's putrid.

[shelly]

[pbspelly]

Curious, is it the fact that it looks like the "M"s were done separately from the subsequent letters in both Mickey and Mantle that tells you it is no good?

[Sophiedog]

It's more than just the M's...Everything about the ball is no good. You can look on Ebay and compare UDA, PSA and JSA certed Mantle balls to this one and see all the problems.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Sophiedog

It's more than just the M's...Everything about the ball is no good. You can look on Ebay and compare UDA, PSA and JSA certed Mantle balls to this one and see all the problems.

You guys have a lot sharper eyes than I do. I compared it to this one http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=246334, which most guys here seemed to think was legit, and the only thing that really stuck out on the bad one was the M-connections to the next letters, the lack of a loop in the e after the k in Mickey, and maybe the arc of the whole signature in general. I don't doubt you guys, just kind of amazed at how you are able to tell.

[GrayGhost]

The first Mickey is really putrid, I should say the first M and next couple letters.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

You guys have a lot sharper eyes than I do. I compared it to this one http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=246334, which most guys here seemed to think was legit, and the only thing that really stuck out on the bad one was the M-connections to the next letters, the lack of a loop in the e after the k in Mickey, and maybe the arc of the whole signature in general. I don't doubt you guys, just kind of amazed at how you are able to tell.

It's all about the "eye."

[bravos4evr]

Mantle terrifies me. (and if I were a Yankee collector I'd be even worse)

I'm no Mantle sig expert in the least yet I will look at 5 different sigs and think they look good and the same and then the true pros on here will point out that it's "laughably bad" and I cringe. I know Braves stuff pretty well and I feel I can spot a fake Williams or DiMaggio, but Mantle? apparently his sig just flummoxes me.

what are the tell tale signs? I had heard of "banana M's" but some look similar and are called "good".

His auto completely baffles me.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

Mantle terrifies me. (and if I were a Yankee collector I'd be even worse)

I'm no Mantle sig expert in the least yet I will look at 5 different sigs and think they look good and the same and then the true pros on here will point out that it's "laughably bad" and I cringe. I know Braves stuff pretty well and I feel I can spot a fake Williams or DiMaggio, but Mantle? apparently his sig just flummoxes me.

what are the tell tale signs? I had heard of "banana M's" but some look similar and are called "good".

His auto completely baffles me.

Nick, if you look at enough authentic Mantle sigs over a long period of time, you will be able to differentiate the authentic ones from the forgeries.

That goes for any autograph in my opinion.

I have no doubt that if I studied Beatles autographs long enough, I would be just as proficient in opining those as I do Mantle, Jeter, etc.

You have to be willing to put in the time.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Nick, if you look at enough authentic Mantle sigs over a long period of time, you will be able to differentiate the authentic ones from the forgeries.

That goes for any autograph in my opinion.

I have no doubt that if I studied Beatles autographs long enough, I would be just as proficient in opining those as I do Mantle, Jeter, etc.

You have to be willing to put in the time.

I have done so on Braves stuff. Lots of time. BUT, I feel like I have looked closely at maybe 100+ Mantle autos and still can't tell a good one from a bad one (and that's the loopy one, I know nothing about the old sig he used in his early days)

It's like his auto is SO distinctive that it flummoxes me. I look at the loops on the M's but that doesn't seem to be consistent either.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

I have done so on Braves stuff. Lots of time. BUT, I feel like I have looked closely at maybe 100+ Mantle autos and still can't tell a good one from a bad one (and that's the loopy one, I know nothing about the old sig he used in his early days)

It's like his auto is SO distinctive that it flummoxes me. I look at the loops on the M's but that doesn't seem to be consistent either.

Look at his autograph as a whole and not in bits and pieces.

That's where the "eye" comes in.

[Ryan1125]

As Christopher said, it is all about training your eye. Start compiling exemplars for Mantle, and look at them every day. Study the fakes, study the inscriptions, pay attention to where he signed, what items were commonly signed when he was doing shows, how big or small he would sign certain items, etc. This is the fun part of the hobby to me!

There isn't one major tell tale sign, but most forgers can't even get the first "M" right. Some fail miserably in the "ic" shape, some fail miserably on the "an" connection, some on the "tle" shape, some on the baseline, signature placement,etc. But it has to be looked at as a whole.

Here's a bit of a "Starters Guide" I whipped up for you. Authentics/Atypical Authentics/Common Forgeries, and what I consider halfway decent forgery attempts that are slightly better than the normal crap you'll see.

[sicollector1954]

Wow...is all I can say.

[Mr. Zipper]

Nice graphic, Ryan.

[Lordstan]

excellent graphic Ryan.
Also, all 3 baseballs in the common forgery examples are what are commonly referred to a "banana" Mantles. I point it out as people often ask what that means. You can clearly see how the exaggerated loops of the "M"s look banana shaped. The Ball where he signed under Williams is especially obvious.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Well done, Ryan.

By the way, Ryan was responsible for exposing the below dirtbags first.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...age=1#comments

[shelly]

You can sit there all day and look at those signatures. It still takes that certain person to pick them out. It just seems to work that way.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by shelly

You can sit there all day and look at those signatures. It still takes that certain person to pick them out. It just seems to work that way.

I agree with Shelly.

In Nick's case, since he has already studied autographs from his favorite team, I think he would be a candidate, with time, of picking out the obvious Mantle forgeries.

Good point, Shelly.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I agree with Shelly.

In Nick's case, since he has already studied autographs from his favorite team, I think he would be a candidate, with time, of picking out the obvious Mantle forgeries.

Good point, Shelly.

maybe......

I am lucky in that the majority of Braves autos are low $$$ and the few that are expensive I was able to spend a lot of time around some authentic examples to get my eye in.

Other than Rabbit Maranville anyway who is probably my next big purchase. and if I'm not sure, this will be my first stop for forking over any cash!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Nice graphic, Ryan.

agreed, very nicely done Ryan.

We take for granted that we can see a forgery from a mile a way. As Mad Dog Truth says, you gotta put in the time and at some point, it comes to you in a flash. When I started, I looked for 1 to 2 things. Now I'm looking at 1 through 10 (if necessary )

[Stampsfan]

Thank you Ryan, for taking the time to put that together. Much appreciated.

[clydepepper]

As someone who is not very savvy about autographs, I have allowed the TOPPS CERTIFIED AUTOGRAPH ISSUE cards into my collection. Either that or PSA/DNA - what's your opinion of these two (lazy man's) options?


.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

As someone who is not very savvy about autographs, I have allowed the TOPPS CERTIFIED AUTOGRAPH ISSUE cards into my collection. Either that or PSA/DNA - what's your opinion of these two (lazy man's) options?


.

Below is a good reason to actually be knowledgeable about autographs.

Below is a Derek Jeter/Scott Rolen "1998 Co-Signers Topps Issued" card.

It contains the Topps "Certified Autograph Issue" stamp.

Both autographs are forgeries. A long time ago someone "back-doored" numerous masters of that card and they were forged.

I wonder how many autograph collectors own the forged set of the below card.



JeterRolenFake.jpg

[clydepepper]

Here's one I owned a few years ago:

1999 Stadium Clun Co-Signers JETER n CHIPPER SOLD 454.54.jpg

And a few I have purchased since then:

TOPPS RANDY JOHNSON and PEDRO MARTINEZ MONTREAL AUTOs.jpg2016 Topps Heritage Carl YASTRZEMSKI AUTO.jpg
1926-29 EXHIBITS- ROGERS HORNSBY PSA-DNA.jpg1961 Topps Ron Santo PSA-DNA.jpg
[ATTACH]1968-TOPPS-177-Mets-Rookie-Stars-PSA-DNA.jpg[/ATTACH]
1997 WILLIE MAYS AUTO.jpg

[Sladge34]

Check out the sellers other items.... not sure if there real but worth checking out. Find it weird he has sooo many topps


https://m.ebay.com/itm/2017-Topps-Fi...&ul_noapp=true