the list (of criminals) is revealed

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

only auctions from 2007-2009?? You don't think this happened long before and long after? In my mind, this list is very incomplete.

Also, do you think that all consignors that were identified knew that their consignments were being shilled? Some obviously knew, but I see a few folks on the list that appeared only a few times that may have had their lots shilled unknowingly (due to max bids by winning bidder, etc.). Is this possible?

As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.

Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions??? Apparently this list is of persons who's lots were shilled, not by Mastro , but by the consignors or their conspirators. There is no one " unknowingly" being shilled. I hope the dominos fall fast and hard.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions???

+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?

[midmo]

Isn't it possible for a consignor to be shilled unknowingly? If the auction house gets a percentage it's in their interest to raise all sale prices.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wolf441

+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?

I think shilling other peoples' auctions happens more than you think, though it is hidden under the guise of "Protecting one's investment".

Say you pay $5k for a card today, then next week another one in the same grade comes up for auction. Nearing the end of the auction it looks like it's going to sell for $3500, so you bid it up with no intention of winning it to give the illusion of it maintaining the market value that you set for it with your $5k purchase.

[Bicem]

Dave and Steve Forman sure do appear a lot as both consignors and shill bidders.

Jeff Pr|zner

[ullmandds]

i see peter S was shilled for a substantial sum on the list. I kinda remember him being reluctant to write a letter to the judge?

[bn2cardz]

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

Nicely done and thank you. That was the simplest and best solution to share the document.

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

this works great, was very interesting... anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

[scotgreb]

I noticed a couple from PSA's "Board of Experts" in the shill bidder column. One in particular is seen many times.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

Andy,

A BIG Thank YOU!

[Buythatcard]

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?

1+ I would like to know that too

[RichardSimon]

Who is Hal Lewis???

[ksabet]

I'm sorry but I can't help but to find it humorous that some of the most egregious shillers were also victims.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Who is Hal Lewis???

Used to be a regular on the board, who had an impressive collection, then sold it all off. If you search his name and his shill bidders name, you'll see they share the same profession in the same town

[martyp]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?

If you go through the list, you will see former Mastro employees who are currently (as far as I know) still employed with other auction houses.

[T206Collector]

I would like to see a summary of:

1. Current Grading Company Officials
2. Current Autograph Authentication Company Officials
3. Current Auction House Officials
4. Current Dealers/eBay Sellers

[khkco4bls]

There are alot of scumbags in this world..

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by conor912

I think shilling other peoples' auctions happens more than you think, though it is hidden under the guise of "Protecting one's investment".

Say you pay $5k for a card today, then next week another one in the same grade comes up for auction. Nearing the end of the auction it looks like it's going to sell for $3500, so you bid it up with no intention of winning it to give the illusion of it maintaining the market value that you set for it with your $5k purchase.

I guess so, but how would you know that you weren't going to win the auction that you had no intention of winning? You would have to know what the max bid was, and that's the main case against Maestro and his cronies...

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I guess so, but how would you know that you weren't going to win the auction that you had no intention of winning? You would have to know what the max bid was, and that's the main case against Maestro and his cronies...

I was more speaking in general, and not necessarily related to Mastro. And yes, you wouldn't know the max bid....that's why sometimes shillers do win unintentionally.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions??? Apparently this list is of persons who's lots were shilled, not by Mastro , but by the consignors or their conspirators. There is no one " unknowingly" being shilled. I hope the dominos fall fast and hard.

Mastro and his cronies were shilling all sorts of items (just look at the list if you haven't already). Again, perhaps there was a max-bid left by the eventual winner and Mastro helped bump the item up to that price. Remember, he's getting 15-20% of the hammer price. So yes, it is plausible that an auction was shilled without the consignor knowing. But perhaps I'm too naive.

[Buythatcard]

Can someone please share the list?

[rhettyeakley]

Pretty eye opening, saw my name as a winning bidder. Surprising just how wide-spread it all was, how did they think nobody would find out when done at this level? Disturbing to say the least.

[trobba]

How would someone shilling for a friend (or themselves) know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by trobba

How would someone shilling for a friend know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob

There were many instances on this list where a name that was listed as the "winning bidder" was also listed as the "shill bidder" for the same item.

[chipperhank44]

Originally Posted by trobba

How would someone shilling for a friend (or themselves) know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

There were many instances on this list where a name that was listed as the "winning bidder" was also listed as the "shill bidder" for the same item.

You accomplish this via an agreement with the auction house. Other people shill the card up to the desired price hoping someone will get caught up in the bidding and overpay. If nobody overpays, the shill bidder goes down as the winning bidder, but card and money do not change hands. Looks legit from a distance, AH has increased profits, consignor has increased profits, everybody wins......except the winning bidder.

For the consignor, the worst case scenario is that nobody overpays, he keeps his card, and the most recent sale of his card is nice and inflated when he consigns it again 4 months down the road.

Worst case for the auction house, they don't get a hefty buyer's premium but they can now advertise a NEW RECORD PRICE for whatever card they sold in a press release and on their website.

[btcarfagno]

Darryl Abramowitz?

Tom C

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Can someone please share the list?

Yeah I'm wondering why this appears to be secretive on this board.

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Yeah I'm wondering why this appears to be secretive on this board.

Post #51 in this thread

http://net54baseball.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=51

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by TNP777

Post #51 in this thread

http://net54baseball.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=51

Thanks !

[paul]

I naively thought that only the big boys bidding on high value lots got shilled. I got shilled for $200. Sad.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Mastro and his cronies were shilling all sorts of items (just look at the list if you haven't already). Again, perhaps there was a max-bid left by the eventual winner and Mastro helped bump the item up to that price. Remember, he's getting 15-20% of the hammer price. So yes, it is plausible that an auction was shilled without the consignor knowing. But perhaps I'm too naive.

Read OP. It reports lots shilled by consignors , NOT the auction house itself.