NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:03 PM
DICKTOWLE DICKTOWLE is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 102
Default Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

I would like to thank 15 new customers from Chat 54 that have sent cards to our business to work on. And now there is repeat business from all. Thank you all for the support. Chat 54 is the best.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:06 PM
I Only Smoke 4 the Cards's Avatar
I Only Smoke 4 the Cards I Only Smoke 4 the Cards is offline
Alex
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,114
Default

What is chat 54?
__________________
Tackling the Monster
T206 = 213/524
HOFs = 13/76
SLers = 33/48
Horizontals = 6/6

ALWAYS looking for T206 with back damage.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:10 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is online now
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 9,016
Default

laughs....I like it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:15 PM
4815162342's Avatar
4815162342 4815162342 is offline
Daryl
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards View Post
What is chat 54?
Chat 54 is the hippest club in town!

54.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:22 PM
CW's Avatar
CW CW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,478
Default

For some reason whenever I see the name "Dick Towle" I can't help but think of Towelie from South Park...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg towelie.jpg (71.8 KB, 1741 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:25 PM
I Only Smoke 4 the Cards's Avatar
I Only Smoke 4 the Cards I Only Smoke 4 the Cards is offline
Alex
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CW View Post
For some reason whenever I see the name "Dick Towle" I can't help but think of Towelie from South Park...

I think of something a fluffed uses.
__________________
Tackling the Monster
T206 = 213/524
HOFs = 13/76
SLers = 33/48
Horizontals = 6/6

ALWAYS looking for T206 with back damage.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:29 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CW View Post
For some reason whenever I see the name "Dick Towle" I can't help but think of Towelie from South Park...
Dick are you still taking wrinkles out of cards? Removing signatures from baseballs to give the impression they were single signed?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=115131

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=115203 post 67
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-24-2014 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:20 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 5,353
Default

Shouldn't this post be somewhere else? Everyone can make their own evaluation of this type of business, but I am not a big fan of using chemicals to treat cards.

Jay Miller
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:22 PM
autograf's Avatar
autograf autograf is offline
Tom Boblitt
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,011
Default

To my knowledge it's only cards.....I'm sure Dick can expand on it. I'm not one of the 'NEW' customers but I did get him to get stains off the back of an N36 Allen & Ginter Indian card and the results were a little scary.....scary good, that is. I didn't do the black light trick nor do I intend to sell but the stains are no longer there. I'm in no way affiliated with the subject, just thought I'd weigh in...........I wish I'd scanned the card before I sent it.

And I agree about Jay about the placement....maybe it'll get moved to the B/S/T.............

Last edited by autograf; 03-24-2014 at 02:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:26 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 5,353
Default

Do we have a spam folder?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:42 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,198
Default

Yes, I consider it advertising spam and it will be dealt with in the future. Since the thread already has legs we'll just leave it.

I am on the fence about the services offered. I have a good hobby friend who is an experienced grader at a large company. He said he sent Dick a few of his personal cards and the results were phenomenal. He said there was no way he could tell anything was done to the cards except what was supposed to be removed was gone with no trace whatsoever left behind.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:48 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is online now
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 9,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Yes, I consider it advertising spam and it will be dealt with in the future. Since the thread already has legs we'll just leave it.

I am on the fence about the services offered. I have a good hobby friend who is an experienced grader at a large company. He said he sent Dick a few of his personal cards and the results were phenomenal. He said there was no way he could tell anything was done to the cards except what was supposed to be removed was gone with no trace whatsoever left behind.
I sent Dick a few personal cards. On a couple the work was phenomenal, on others it looked the same as when I sent them in.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:17 PM
DICKTOWLE DICKTOWLE is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 102
Default Gone with the stain

I would like to make it clear that I don't remove autographs on baseballs, however I now remove wrinkles on cards and faces, if I can help someone, and you know who you are, please contact us
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:21 PM
4815162342's Avatar
4815162342 4815162342 is offline
Daryl
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,215
Default

Maybe this section should be renamed Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards, New Member Introductions, & Card Alterer Advertisements.

Last edited by 4815162342; 03-24-2014 at 03:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:25 PM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default Alex

it's fluffer
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:37 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE View Post
I would like to make it clear that I don't remove autographs on baseballs, however I now remove wrinkles on cards and faces, if I can help someone, and you know who you are, please contact us
Shameless.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:39 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
John
J0hn McD@niel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Shouldn't this post be somewhere else? Everyone can make their own evaluation of this type of business, but I am not a big fan of using chemicals to treat cards.

Jay Miller
+1
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:15 PM
chipperhank44's Avatar
chipperhank44 chipperhank44 is offline
Trey
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 249
Default

Not a fan of what this guy does at all. I doubt most of his clients are forthcoming when it comes to the history of their cards' restoration when sending it to a TPG or selling.

And the name reminds me of something you might avoid on a dorm room floor....
__________________
Collecting Pre-1920 HOF Postcards
(single subject, not team postcards)
@TreyCumby
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:50 PM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
Lou Simcoe
L0u Sim.coe
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Olathe KS
Posts: 1,712
Default

I know everyone has strong feelings about what Dick does, personally I do not have an issue with his work. What he does is no different than someone who restores paintings or other works of art.
__________________
My new found obsession the t206!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:55 PM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
T0dd M@rcum
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,318
Default

It's an interesting conundrum. I would probably do it for a card that was scarce and I intended to keep, but never have had the right combination of factors come up to tempt me.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:14 PM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 6,122
Default

Chat 54 <---- This is what we should rename the water cooler section.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:37 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
Chat 54 <---- This is what we should rename the water cooler section.
Then what would our chat room be? For those that don't know, we have a nice chat room for any and all members to take advantage of. It's always open and seldom taken advantage of.....
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:37 PM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,405
Default

"Gone with the stain. Dick Towle"
Some jokes write themselves.

As some of you know, I personally think that soaking a card constitutes alteration. Yes, I understand that mine is a minority opinion, and don't wish to revisit my recent vodka fueled rant on the subject.

What I do wish is...to state here that someone using chemicals (other than the universal solvent) to remove stains from a card, if they go to sell it without disclosing the alteration, is just plain wrong. And, in my opinion, anyone who has someone else perform the alteration before selling the card without full disclosure is just as unethical.

Additionally, and here is the reason for me leaving this post, I place Mr. Towle in the same category as those who sell pack wrappers with the original pieces of gum or sell the original flips from cracked out graded cards.

Enabling fraud is just shy of actually committing it. Just my two cents...and I actually don't apologize if that statement offends anyone...especially Mr. Dick Towle.

Best regards, and happy to stand by my opinion by having my full name in this post.
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (132/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (189/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:47 PM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

I am in the minority and have never had any fixes done, but I don't have an issue with what Mr Towle does. He doesn't add paper or color to cover flaws or take away parts of the card to give an appearance of four sharp corners. The card is 100% original. What he does give the card back some of its luster. Especially the way he removes a card from a scrapbook. I would much rather have the cards he removes from a scrapbook than one where the entire back is ripped off. I consider what he does more of a preservation than an alteration.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:54 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
D@v!d J@m3s
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,981
Default

To debate whether his service is right or wrong is one thing, but making fun is his name is kind of juvenile.

FWIW, I have never used his service, but I have bought cards from him - about a dozen or so 1956 Topps. They were advertised as NM. I sent them all to SGC for grading and 2 came back a 6, 2 came back an 8 and all the others were either 7 or 7.5. So, his assessment of the cards were spot on. I don't know if any of the cards that I purchased were "cleaned" or not, and I really don't care but, if they were, they got by SGC's graders.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:03 PM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
I don't know if any of the cards that I purchased were "cleaned" or not, and I really don't care but, if they were, they got by SGC's graders.
Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (132/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (189/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:23 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
John
J0hn McD@niel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?
+1

Not sure what is more juvenile having a harmless good natured laugh at someone’s name. Or not caring if you have been taken to the cleaners no pun intended on doctored cards that are all good because they made it into holders to pass onto the next guy.

Last edited by wonkaticket; 03-24-2014 at 07:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:31 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Yes, I consider it advertising spam and it will be dealt with in the future. Since the thread already has legs we'll just leave it.

I am on the fence about the services offered. I have a good hobby friend who is an experienced grader at a large company. He said he sent Dick a few of his personal cards and the results were phenomenal. He said there was no way he could tell anything was done to the cards except what was supposed to be removed was gone with no trace whatsoever left behind.
So the better the card doctor, the more acceptable the doctoring?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:32 PM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonkaticket View Post
Not sure what is more juvenile having a harmless good natured laugh at someone’s name. Or not caring if you have been taken to the cleaners no pun intended on doctored cards that are all good because they made it into holders to pass onto the next guy.
Since you aren't sure let me help you out. It is making fun of someone's name. Not caring about how the previous owner handled the cards prior to you owning is either a well thought out decision on your collecting preference or apathy. Making fun some someone's name is nothing more than a lack of maturity.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:38 PM
Matt E. Matt E. is offline
Matt E.
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 201
Default

Dick or anyone,

Just wondering how much does it cost to have a stain or stains removed?

Do tobacco stains cost more than water stains? What determines the cost?

Thanks,

Matt

Last edited by Matt E.; 03-24-2014 at 07:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:40 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
D@v!d J@m3s
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,981
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?
If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter? What can be done?

Maybe it's not that I don't care, but I would rather focus my efforts on the types of alterations that do leave evidence and that we can do something about.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:41 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
So the better the card doctor, the more acceptable the doctoring?

Why try to put words in my mouth?
I gave no opinion. I only said it wasn't detectable, and in that respect, it's good work. I said I was on the fence about his work as a whole, if you care to actually read what I wrote, instead of being argumentative?
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:45 PM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
Lou Simcoe
L0u Sim.coe
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Olathe KS
Posts: 1,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
"Gone with the stain. Dick Towle"
Some jokes write themselves.

As some of you know, I personally think that soaking a card constitutes alteration. Yes, I understand that mine is a minority opinion, and don't wish to revisit my recent vodka fueled rant on the subject.

What I do wish is...to state here that someone using chemicals (other than the universal solvent) to remove stains from a card, if they go to sell it without disclosing the alteration, is just plain wrong. And, in my opinion, anyone who has someone else perform the alteration before selling the card without full disclosure is just as unethical.

Additionally, and here is the reason for me leaving this post, I place Mr. Towle in the same category as those who sell pack wrappers with the original pieces of gum or sell the original flips from cracked out graded cards.

Enabling fraud is just shy of actually committing it. Just my two cents...and I actually don't apologize if that statement offends anyone...especially Mr. Dick Towle.

Best regards, and happy to stand by my opinion by having my full name in this post.
Do you also believe it is wrong to have works of art cleaned and restored?

I'm not picking an arguement with you, as I agree that full disclosure must be practiced.
__________________
My new found obsession the t206!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:50 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Why try to put words in my mouth?
I gave no opinion. I only said it wasn't detectable, and in that respect, it's good work. I said I was on the fence about his work as a whole, if you care to actually read what I wrote, instead of being argumentative?
Fair enough, but come on bro get off the fence, take a stand!!
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:04 PM
T206Collector's Avatar
T206Collector T206Collector is offline
Paul
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter? What can be done?

Maybe it's not that I don't care, but I would rather focus my efforts on the types of alterations that do leave evidence and that we can do something about.
+1
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs
www.SignedT206.com

www.instagram.com/signedT206/
@SignedT206
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:05 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is online now
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

I do not believe it is wrong to restore/conserve/repair works of art so they may be enjoyed by many.

I had a patient once who did paper restoration...and I had him remove pieces of scotch tape from an autographed maris rookie I got from my neighbor growing up as a kid. I'm happy...the card looks much better than before...I will likely keep the card most of my life anyway.

I had Dick remove some nasty tape from an m101-3 cobb...and he did a fine job and I am much happier with the card now! It's still a beater grade wise...and you can obviously still see tape residue...but it's much more presentable.

I don't have a problem with removals if they do not affect the card otherwise.

I have a problem with adding color, adding corners, trimming, changing captions, bleaching...etc.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg m1013cobb011.jpg (77.5 KB, 977 views)
File Type: jpg cobb:collins.jpg (74.2 KB, 659 views)

Last edited by ullmandds; 03-25-2014 at 12:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:07 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Fair enough, but come on bro get off the fence, take a stand!!
I am staying on the fence for now, thanks. I really have mixed feelings.....
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:10 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I am staying on the fence for now, thanks. I really have mixed feelings.....
Indeed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg untitled.jpg (15.0 KB, 963 views)
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:17 PM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 7,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCRfan1 View Post
Do you also believe it is wrong to have works of art cleaned and restored?

I'm not picking an arguement with you, as I agree that full disclosure must be practiced.

Noble goal, but has anyone received full disclosure on any 100 year old card that they have purchased? Provenance when available is interesting and when available should be pursued, but I have never seen or heard of a card being promoted with a statement that indicates that the card was cracked out of a PSA slab in 2003 and resubmitted to SGC. Or that a card was sent to PSA seven times until it got the desired the grade. Or how that card may have been stored, handled or displayed for its first 90 years of existence.

Personally I have absolutely no knowledge of what happened to any of my cards in 1964, and in 2064 I doubt that any collectors (with the possible exception of wazoo) will know what a Dick Towle is, what it did or what it means.

Those who practice restoration (by any method) with an intent to deceive will not disclose. As I said, full disclosure is a noble goal, but perhaps a fantasy in the real world and all the pontification in the world will not change that.

Disclaimer: I agree with everyone who has posted in this thread, and add this editorial comment without prejudice, so don't try to pick a fight with me.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER.

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES


274/1000 Monster Number


Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-24.
Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served.
If you want fries with your order, just speak up.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:19 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
John
J0hn McD@niel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
Since you aren't sure let me help you out. It is making fun of someone's name. Not caring about how the previous owner handled the cards prior to you owning is either a well thought out decision on your collecting preference or apathy. Making fun some someone's name is nothing more than a lack of maturity.
Thanks for your guidance Andy, or should I say Andy Bo Bandy.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-24-2014, 09:38 PM
Jantz's Avatar
Jantz Jantz is offline
Archive
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,737
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
What can be done?
The fact that cleaned cards get slabbed is possible because graders are unaware of what to look for.

I'm pretty confident nobody lists on the submission form that these cards were cleaned with chemicals before submitting them.

So back to your question David. What can be done?

Maybe a collector could purchase a card that has been cleaned to educate himself/herself.

Just a suggestion.


Jantz
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:22 PM
GoldenAge50s's Avatar
GoldenAge50s GoldenAge50s is offline
FredYoung
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: RI
Posts: 7,761
Default

If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter?

My feelings also. If you can't see it, smell it or can't know it was done, then was ANYTHING really done?

It's like grading: a card gets a VG 4 for a crease no one can see or find--then to me it isn't there!
__________________
I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:49 PM
Brian Van Horn Brian Van Horn is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,028
Default

The basis of this thread repulses me.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:10 AM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 5,353
Default

If you can't detect a trim is that OK? if you can't detect rebuilt corners is that OK? This is a slippery slope you have gotten on.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:24 AM
freakhappy's Avatar
freakhappy freakhappy is offline
Mike C@.v3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Posts: 2,102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonkaticket View Post
Thanks for your guidance Andy, or should I say Andy Bo Bandy.
Johnny...be nice

In my opinion, if there is no trace of "alteration", there is no alteration. Just because the card was cleaned, doesn't mean it was altered. If a card is dirty, was it originally dirty? Of course it wasn't...so if it is then cleaned without any chemicals or something that seems to alter the card in some sort, why is this practice considered unethical?

Also, I believe Frank brings up some great points...way to keep it real, Frank!
__________________
T206's Graded low-mid 219/520
T201's SGC/PSA 2-5 50/50
T202's SGC/PSA 2-5 10/132
1938 Goudey Graded VG range 37/48
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:26 AM
freakhappy's Avatar
freakhappy freakhappy is offline
Mike C@.v3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Posts: 2,102
Default Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
If you can't detect a trim is that OK? if you can't detect rebuilt corners is that OK? This is a slippery slope you have gotten on.


cleaning is not trimming...



Of course there are some TPG's that miss trimming on some cards, but I would hope that most of it does get caught. And rebuilding is not even close to simply cleaning a stain or dirt from a card.



So all ball players that slide into home and get dirt on their knees...should they not be able to wipe it off??? That would result in alteration!!!
__________________
T206's Graded low-mid 219/520
T201's SGC/PSA 2-5 50/50
T202's SGC/PSA 2-5 10/132
1938 Goudey Graded VG range 37/48

Last edited by freakhappy; 03-25-2014 at 12:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:55 AM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
John
J0hn McD@niel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,668
Default

So Mike if I cleaned say a 1914 CJ Jackson and removed all the stains made it look brighter and cleaner or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner...and you couldn't tell.

You wouldn't mind to find out later you paid a premium due to my "undectable" face lift?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-25-2014, 03:41 AM
teetwoohsix's Avatar
teetwoohsix teetwoohsix is offline
Clayton
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 2,461
Default

I just have a question, and will refrain on saying what I think of this.

Mr. Towle admits he uses "chemicals" to do his work. So, my question would be this: Since chemicals are admittedly being used, are there any guarantees that 20 years down the road the card/s that this process was done to will not begin to degrade from the chemical exposure? That includes paper degradation, ink fading, etc? Obviously in the short term, it appears that all traces of whatever mysterious chemicals are being used are not detectable. But, I'm wondering about the long term effects-20, 25, 30 years from now-have any long term studies been done?

Thanks-

Sincerely, Clayton
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-25-2014, 05:51 AM
smokelessjoe's Avatar
smokelessjoe smokelessjoe is offline
Shawn England
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dawsonville, Ga
Posts: 643
Default Baloney

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonkaticket View Post
So Mike if I cleaned say a 1914 CJ Jackson and removed all the stains made it look brighter and cleaner or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner...and you couldn't tell.

You wouldn't mind to find out later you paid a premium due to my "undectable" face lift?
Johnka Wonka McDonka

Ok, I am wondering about your question? So John, if I dumped chocolate milk (that is a hypothetical liquid - could be pomegranate rind as well) on a lets say 1914 CJ Jackson and added all kinds of stains to make it look darker & dirtier or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner.... and you could obviously tell.

Would you mind paying an inferior price due to my "detectable" face lift?

More importantly, would you expect full disclosure of how I altered the cards? My name, when, where, what and how???

Thank you,
Shoney Baloney
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-25-2014, 05:55 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,293
Default

I always find it fascinating how much collectors will pay for high grade baseball cards when so much can be done to enhance them, much of it undetectable. You would think that there would have to be a very high level of confidence to pay many thousands of dollars for a pristine card, but the only thing that ever seems to matter is the number on the slab. Nothing deters a buyer as long as the label reads 8, 9, or higher. It's an amazing phenomenon.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can this stain be removed? HOF Auto Rookies Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 03-28-2013 01:18 PM
Stain or Transfer Bwstew Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 12-11-2012 04:21 PM
33 Goudey gum stain? mighty bombjack Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 10-12-2011 08:43 PM
Letters in the stain Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 05-12-2008 09:39 AM
Name that stain! (c'mon - it's FREE!) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 08-25-2004 12:38 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04 PM.


ebay GSB