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  #1  
Old 01-01-2006, 10:59 AM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: 1966CUDA

I picked up this old postcard of Yankee Statium that features a photo of Babe Ruth in the upper corner...the back doesn't really help identify this. Just wondering if anyone knows the mfg. and approximate date?? Thanks in advance-Claude


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  #2  
Old 01-01-2006, 12:50 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: RobertS

While it may be real (and an undocumented variation), these cards with Babe in the sky have been documented by some baseball postcard experts as being fakes.

Several "homemade" Yankee stadium postcards have been produced over the last several years, sold on eBay and at card and PC shows. These cards all featured well-known Yankee stadum designed, with newly-inserted pictures of Ruth.

Indeed, one stadium postcard newsletter has written about this subject, warning would-be buyers. I know of two dealers who bought similar fakes (although not the one you show). Also, these cards are not included in the baseball postcard priceguides (see below).

You should check the card to see if it is:

1) Thinner than the average pre-linen postcard of its day. Many of the fakes were printed on much thinnner stock (remember, real postcards had to make it through the mail).

2) Been produced on a laser printer or copier.

3) Artificially aged or baked. Some are more "aged" than others (check the edges). Not all are "aged," however.

4) Funny looking, with colors that are a bit "off" from the original (unaltered) designs. The fakes are more sepia-like, with color that looks like a photocopy or laser-printed

What the scammers have been doing is to take a well-known, common postcard and alter its design by inserting Babe Ruth.

For example:

Original--


Fake--


Here's the well-known version of the Yankee stadium PC you posted:



(By the way, Haberman and Manhattan Postcard Pub. Co. issued many different versions of the same scene, with the clouds painted differently, and the title moved over to the left -- e.g.:

)

I've seen the card you posted being sold on eBay before and was even warned about them by a dealer, although I have never held one myself and therefore haven't checked it myself. It may be a real variation that has yet to be documented.

These two books contain pretty exhaustive listings of baseball postcards, and don't include your postcard:

"Baseball Stadium Postcards" by Tom Crabtree
&
"Sports Postcard Price Guide" by J.L. Mashburn.

BTW, Here is a link to a previous post on the fake stadium postcard topic:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1118183451/>

  #3  
Old 01-01-2006, 01:07 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: 1966CUDA

Do you know if it could be sent to PSA or SGC for authentication? I see looking thru the pop report on SGC that they have graded a "1920's Yankee Stadium" postcard...it does not metion anything about Babe Ruth. If not PSA or SGC, does anyone else authenticate/grade postcards?

-Claude

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Old 01-01-2006, 01:30 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: RobertS

I know the big grading companies have graded postcards that appear either in the SCD big book by Lemke or the Beckett guides. Of course, stadium postcards aren't in either book, so I'm not sure.

That said, I'm not sure how much PSA or SGC knows or even cares about stadium postcards. As far as I can tell, your card has never been included in any of the lists of many, many Yankee stadium postcards published by those who issued stadium cards in the 1920s-50s -- Haberman, Manhattan Postcard Co., Mainzer, Acacia, etc.

By the way, your card features the logo of Manhattan Publishing Co.

Your best bet may be to contact Ballpark Postcard Newsletter (BPN), or the Stadipex group (stadium postcard collectors).

BTW, where did you get your card? BTW, where did you get your card? Did you get it from the same place as the modern one you posted about two days ago? -- http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1135999429/last-1136000092/Need+help+identifying+this+Walter+Johnson+postcard>--




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Old 01-01-2006, 01:50 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: davidcycleback

CUDA1966, there are collectors who specialize in these stadium postcards and know much more about them than I. There's a guy on eBay who's very knowledgeble about baseball postcards, but I forget his username at this moment. I'm sure someone else on this board knows it. RTO-something rather. He would be of help. The stadium postcard collectors use serial numbers on the cards to categorize them.

PSA grades postcards that are offically cataloged or otherwise clearly identifiable. Since there are formal collecting groups of stadium postcards who unlikely have compiled much info about them, I would think a genuine stadium postcard would qualify as gradable. The various stadium cards were sold commercially to the public, so they are as much baseball cards as the 1950s Dormand Postcards.

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Old 01-01-2006, 02:01 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: David McDonald

gtp.ro sells alot of baseball postcards and seems to be on the level. Is that who you meant?

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Old 01-01-2006, 02:02 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: davidcycleback

That's him, thanks. I've dealt with him, and he not only knows more than I about bb postcards, but is a good guy.

I beleive that the major graders grade cards that are cataloged in Beckett or Standard Catalog or that can be shown to be legitimate. A woman had one of those 1920 Frederic Foto baseball cards and one of the big graders wouldn't grade it because it wasn't cataloged and they were unfamiliar with it. I sent to the woman a scan of a respected auction house's catalog page from when they sold a Ruth from the set, with their description of the card and history. The woman showed this catalog description to the grader and the graders have graded many of the cards since. So that's how it sometimes work for uncataloged items.

Sometimes the complaint of the submitter is that a grader should know the legitimate if uncataloged cards. But knowing something means having learned it, and sometimes the grader leans it from the collector. Far from a sign of weakness, I'd worry about the PSA grader or MastroNet writer who spent years on the job without learning anything new.

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Old 01-01-2006, 07:48 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: RobertS

GTP.RO is a great guy, but this is the guy to contact -- Jim Schneider, aka Greenmonster.

You can contact him through his About Me page on eBay (I don't know if he would want me to post his email here).

Here is an excerpt from his About Me eBay page (http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=greenmonster):

"I co-published the "Ballpark Postcard News", contributed to Sports Collectors Digest, Barr's PC News, Vintage and Classic Baseball Collector, Tom Crabtree's Baseball Stadium Postcard checklist/price guide and several other hobby publications. In 1988, 1996 and again in 2000 I promoted "Stadiapex", a gathering of ballpark and player postcard collectors.

Recently I starting publishing the Ballpark Postcard Newsletter (BPN), if you’re interested in ballpark postcards than you may find this publication interesting. Drop me an email request and I'll send out a complimentary copy of the latest issue."

Of course you likely won't like what he has to say -- since he already has published an article about the fake Babe Ruth / Yankee Stadium postcards!

Also...why turn to graders when you can just buy one of the many pre-linen Manhattan Postcard Publishing Co. postcards on eBay or elsewhere (many for under $15) and simply compare the printing and cardstock yourself. Anyone with eyes and/or fingers can do this himself...

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Old 01-01-2006, 10:51 PM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: 1966CUDA

Thanks for the responses with all the help. I didn't know that it could be counterfeit so I never thought of picking up another one without the Ruth photo...I will try that next and see if they are close in feel. I also want to get the book by Tom Crabtree..thanks for the suggestion. I picked this one up about 4 months ago...not from the same person who sold the Walter Johnson last week.

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Old 01-02-2006, 12:02 AM
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Default Babe Ruth Yankee Stadium..need help identifying??

Posted By: Josh Evans

This is without a doubt a color Xerox
No good, NG, case closed

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