1972 Topps Clemente- what's Roberto doing?

[frankh8147]

I was always curious about this card (note: this picture is from Ebay and not my card); is he taking a walk, striking out, or something else? What's going on here??

[familytoad]

By the position of the catcher's glove and the expression on Roberto's face, I'm thinking he was guessing fastball and got a curve that floated right down Broadway and he didn't swing

[JollyElm]

People have debated this exact topic before somewhere around these parts.
For me, I always saw it as Roberto being very unhappy with a strike called on him. But someone pointed out their theory was that he's actually loosening up (before any pitch is thrown) by sorta rotating his head and neck.
I wish there was film of this at bat, because I really want to know what the heck is going on!!!

[brewing]

He took a strike three and didn't agree with the call or was fooled by the pitch.
Yes, the great Roberto Clemente struck out.

[Cliff Bowman]

It happened on August 1, 1971, game one of a doubleheader against the Giants in San Francisco in a day game. The Giants catcher is Russ Gibson, #18. In order he grounded out to short, flew out to center, homered off of Marichal, hit a sacrifice fly to right, and struck out swinging in the ninth against Don McMahon.

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by brewing

He took a strike three and didn't agree with the call or was fooled by the pitch.
Yes, the great Roberto Clemente struck out.

That was always my interpretation of the image and it has always been my least favorite of his cards.

[Paul S]

I'd say embarrassed caught looking on strike three (as called by the ump, whether correct or wrong call, he might have protected the plate).

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

It happened on August 1, 1971, game one of a doubleheader against the Giants in San Francisco in a day game. The Giants catcher is Russ Gibson, #18. In order he grounded out to short, flew out to center, homered off of Marichal, hit a sacrifice fly to right, and struck out swinging in the ninth against Don McMahon.

That's amazing analysis from just one picture. I would have said "I think that's Roberto Clemente. Yep, that's who it is all right."

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Paul S

I'd say embarrassed caught looking on strike three (as called by the ump, whether correct or wrong call, he might have protected the plate).

It's indisputable that the photo was taken from a day game between the Pirates and Giants in Candlestick Park, and the key evidence of exactly which game is the Giants catcher, #18 Russ Gibson. The only time Gibson appeared in a Giants home game against the Pirates was August 1, 1971, in the first game of a doubleheader. Clemente struck out once that day but it was swinging. I'm guessing that in one of the five plate appearances he had a 3-0 or 3-1 count and took a pitch thinking it was ball four but the umpire called it a strike, but not strike three. Baseball-Reference.com is an amazing site :-).

[nolemmings]

Or he was fooled by the pitch and gave a half-hearted or checked too far swing.

[granite75]

Regardless, a really odd photo to choose as an 'in action' image.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

It's indisputable that the photo was taken from a day game between the Pirates and Giants in Candlestick Park, and the key evidence of exactly which game is the Giants catcher, #18 Russ Gibson. The only time Gibson appeared in a Giants home game against the Pirates was August 1, 1971, in the first game of a doubleheader. Clemente struck out once that day but it was swinging. I'm guessing that in one of the five plate appearances he had a 3-0 or 3-1 count and took a pitch thinking it was ball four but the umpire called it a strike, but not strike three. Baseball-Reference.com is an amazing site :-).

We were all wondering how you came by that information. Well done!!

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

It's indisputable that the photo was taken from a day game between the Pirates and Giants in Candlestick Park, and the key evidence of exactly which game is the Giants catcher, #18 Russ Gibson. The only time Gibson appeared in a Giants home game against the Pirates was August 1, 1971, in the first game of a doubleheader. Clemente struck out once that day but it was swinging. I'm guessing that in one of the five plate appearances he had a 3-0 or 3-1 count and took a pitch thinking it was ball four but the umpire called it a strike, but not strike three. Baseball-Reference.com is an amazing site :-).

That's pretty cool to know.


I have always thought it was immediate reaction to a pitch "he wish he had back" , but looking at it today, the position of the infield dirt and what I assume is half of the 3rd base umpire in the background seems to indicate that Roberto may have taken a bit of a step toward first base. So I now cast my vote with "disagreed with umpires call on what he thought was ball four"

[k-dog]

You guys have no imagination. Obviously he was thinking about the night before (with Vera)!!

[frankh8147]

Thanks for the info. I have always been curious. Topps chose some nice images for it's in action cards (i'm particularly fond of the Mays), so this card was always odd to me.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by k-dog

You guys have no imagination. Obviously he was thinking about the night before (with Vera)!!

Which means Vera was home............Okay, I'm not going there

[stlcardsfan]

I agree that is a terrible "Action" picture of what was already a legend at that point.

[JollyElm]

It seems some people are missing the beauty of these 1972 'In Action' cards. While there are a ton of the usual staid in-game shots--people running, pitching and hitting--the anomalies like this Clemente are stellar. Not exactly what you would call the same, tired old shot. Instead, it shows a subtle nuance in the game--being frustrated with a 'bad' call by the umpire. The Bob Barton is another one that seems odd on its face, but it's what a catcher does a number of times during the game--chasing an uncatchable foul ball back to the screen. These photos provide a more complete, rounded look at an MLB game.

And among the action shots, I love the Tito Fuentes and the grinning Bobby Bonds. Great stuff!!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Having watched Clemente countless times on TV and at many home games at Forbes Field and Three Rivers Stadium, I do know that he had a habit of rotating his head around to loosen his bad neck between pitches. Whether that's the case here I can't be certain.

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by granite75

Regardless, a really odd photo to choose as an 'in action' image.

As I recall, almost all of the "In Action" cards would have been better titled "Inaction". They were too often just people standing around.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by DaClyde

As I recall, almost all of the "In Action" cards would have been better titled "Inaction". They were too often just people standing around.

Looking through all of the 1972 Topps In Action cards, it looks like every one of them was taken either in New York (Shea Stadium and Yankee Stadium) or in the Bay Area (Candlestick Park and Oakland-Alameda Coliseum).

[chris6net]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Looking through all of the 1972 Topps In Action cards, it looks like every one of them was taken either in New York (Shea Stadium and Yankee Stadium) or in the Bay Area (Candlestick Park and Oakland-Alameda Coliseum).

They were.

[baseballfan]

here is my take the wall behind him looks like an outfield wall full of fans, not a wall or dugout behind the plate, from that angle it looks like he is actually in front of the plate and catcher toward the mound as if walking toward first but called back on a strike call. the umpire in the background looks out of position if he was in clemente was in the box, he appears close to the action and where the 3rd baseman would be.

I also think the dirt behind him is the mound and the ump is in position with a man on first.

so picture taken in disbelief of called strike on his way to first crossing the toward the first base bag.

just my thoughts but great question

Originally Posted by frankh8147

I was always curious about this card (note: this picture is from Ebay and not my card); is he taking a walk, striking out, or something else? What's going on here??

[parkerj33]

I think he is still standing in the batters box at home plate. the catcher is still on his knees crotched behind home plate. the dirt is third base, because you can see the foul line between roberto's legs.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by parkerj33

I think he is still standing in the batters box at home plate. the catcher is still on his knees crotched behind home plate. the dirt is third base, because you can see the foul line between roberto's legs.

You are, of course, correct. That is absolutely where he is. It's right there for everyone to see, yet people keep saying these bizarre things. WTF????

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by parkerj33

I think he is still standing in the batters box at home plate. the catcher is still on his knees crotched behind home plate. the dirt is third base, because you can see the foul line between roberto's legs.

I didn't really notice that line at first, and almost agreed with you, but it seems we would see the line continued as chalk in the dirt, and maybe even the bag. I'm sticking with my original guess (echoed by baseballfan three posts up - although I don't think the dirt is the mound, I do think it is the 3rd base patch of dirt). I don't think anyone can be absolutely certain .