Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[Peter_Spaeth]

ouch
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1866

[MULLINS5]

I think Brent was part of the 'buyer's club' that ran/shilled prices up. Why? To give an appearance that PWCC cards command higher prices. PSA was pushing heavily on advertising these record prices, too.

When the buyer's club was outed, Brent went of defense and made some posts to try to clear the air and do damage control.

Then came the next best thing: PWCC assigning grades to already graded cards. It was ludicrous, but I guess it worked as it kept the premiums coming.

Now an altered '52 Mantle exposes hundreds of other altered cards and trimmers and there is an apparent connection between one of them and Brent.

Brent again goes on defense, possibly knowing the level of fraud that took place and wanting to get ahead of it goes on record trying to link/normalize it to restoration and conservation, which it is not.

The common denominator here is Brent/PWCC.

If anyone on the Blowout forum is reading this, please look into the Topps Bobby Hull rookie, Topps/OPC Wayne Gretzky rookies, and 1989 Topps Joe Sakic rookie. There have been some phenomenal examples come to light in the past three years offered by PWCC. The 1989 PSA 10 Sakic stayed at a POP 2 for YEARS and then suddenly got flooded. Hull (a notoriously OC card) has had some clean centered ones slabbed in this time, and the Gretzky cards have been graded with too nice of edges.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

If anyone on the Blowout forum is reading this, please look into the Topps Bobby Hull rookie, Topps/OPC Wayne Gretzky rookies, and 1989 Topps Joe Sakic rookie. There have been some phenomenal examples come to light in the past three years offered by PWCC. The 1989 PSA 10 Sakic stayed at a POP 2 for YEARS and then suddenly got flooded. Hull (a notoriously OC card) has had some clean centered ones slabbed in this time, and the Gretzky cards have been graded with too nice of edges.

I sent this along.

[sportscardtheory]

Everyone should be worried about this. It affects the very reputation of the TPG who grades or graded YOUR cards. It's a direct negative reflection on the integrity of EVERY PSA and BGS graded card. If they can't or won't catch alteration, what the hell good are they. This renders third party grading essentially useless, beyond card protection. You can't trust a grade. If you aren't worried, your'e oblivious. Every card now carries a stigma of possibly being trimmed by these criminals. Criminals who have been handed a means to commit fraud by TPG's not doing what is supposed to be their core objective.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Everyone should be worried about this. It affects the very reputation of the TPG who grades or graded YOUR cards. It's a direct negative reflection on the integrity of EVERY PSA and BGS graded card. If you aren't worried, your'e oblivious. Every card has the stigma of possibly being trimmed by these criminals.

Not worried, just startled.

[egbeachley]

Long holiday weekend allows for reading every Blowout post.

So, we have a handful of trimmers who ONLY deal in grading and selling their handiwork. Looks like over 30,000 cards so far when Block is included and using submission data. Averaging about $1,000 per card in sales. Over $3 million in fraud sales and growing. That has to affect everyone at some point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Long holiday weekend allows for reading every Blowout post.

So, we have a handful of trimmers who ONLY deal in grading and selling their handiwork. Looks like over 30,000 cards so far when Block is included and using submission data. Averaging about $1,000 per card in sales. Over $3 million in fraud sales and growing. That has to affect everyone at some point.

And let's not forget this has been going on since the 90s. They're only uncovering a bit of the most recent layer.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Long holiday weekend allows for reading every Blowout post.

So, we have a handful of trimmers who ONLY deal in grading and selling their handiwork. Looks like over 30,000 cards so far when Block is included and using submission data. Averaging about $1,000 per card in sales. Over $3 million in fraud sales and growing. That has to affect everyone at some point.

My bad, poor math. That should be $30 million.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

I think Brent was part of the 'buyer's club' that ran/shilled prices up. Why? To give an appearance that PWCC cards command higher prices. PSA was pushing heavily on advertising these record prices, too.

When the buyer's club was outed, Brent went of defense and made some posts to try to clear the air and do damage control.

Then came the next best thing: PWCC assigning grades to already graded cards. It was ludicrous, but I guess it worked as it kept the premiums coming.

Now an altered '52 Mantle exposes hundreds of other altered cards and trimmers and there is an apparent connection between one of them and Brent.

Brent again goes on defense, possibly knowing the level of fraud that took place and wanting to get ahead of it goes on record trying to link/normalize it to restoration and conservation, which it is not.

The common denominator here is Brent/PWCC.

Agree with all, but in bold

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

ouch
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1866

That's a lot of border trimmed off.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That's a lot of border trimmed off.

Yeah let me change ouch to my preferred word these days. Mercy.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That's a lot of border trimmed off.

Yeah, a good sized chunk of cardboard fell to the cutting room floor. And it's a really bad trim job, at that...

Look at that awful, obviously altered right border. Nice job, PSA

[bobbyw8469]

Is that board really legit? I thought Matt Miller was banned from subbing to PSA. Not for trimming, but a beef he had with them involving a card that they damaged during grading.

[Frank A]

The more I read about this the more I stew about PSA. What kind of crap are they putting out as unaltered. I see there is no reply from them about any of this. They will just wait until it blows over and then continue with the same nonsense. What a friggin joke they have become.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Frank A

The more I read about this the more I stew about PSA. What kind of crap are they putting out as unaltered. I see there is no reply from them about any of this. They will just wait until it blows over and then continue with the same nonsense. What a friggin joke they have become.

They won't reply...

And their failures (whether it's pure ineptitude or "favorable" treatment) are much more dangerous and further-reaching than PWCC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

They won't reply...

And their failures (whether it's pure ineptitude or "favorable" treatment) are much more dangerous and further-reaching than PWCC.

The only way they'll reply is if it somehow trickles over to CLCT and investors/analysts.

I HOPE they are doing something internally about this, surely they do or will perceive a threat to the brand and that should motivate them.

[MBMiller25]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Is that board really legit? I thought Matt Miller was banned from subbing to PSA. Not for trimming, but a beef he had with them involving a card that they damaged during grading.

That’s not me Bobby, it’s a different Matt Miller. I have no ability to do anything with PSA. That was the point of the picture being taken. It was taken as my name was on it, and a friend was sending it to me.

[A2000]

Calzones > pizza

[JeremyW]

That's not a bad thing anymore. You might be better off Matt.

[MBMiller25]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

That's not a bad thing anymore. You might be better off Matt.

At the rate this is going.... you’re correct!

[sayheykid54]

This past weekend I noticed a nice Ty Cobb pin PWCC was selling. Based on the craziness surrounding PWCC lately, it made me look a lot closer at the pin. I noticed that the back rim was an untarnished brighter silver in appearance. Thoughts on the pin? Am I being paranoid??

I decided NOT to bid on the auction.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by sayheykid54

This past weekend I noticed a nice Ty Cobb pin PWCC was selling. Based on the craziness surrounding PWCC lately, it made me look a lot closer at the pin. I noticed that the back rim was an untarnished brighter silver in appearance. Thoughts on the pin? Am I being paranoid??

I decided NOT to bid on the auction.

I don't know of the sale, but rust and corrosion is what you look for on the back on antique pins because it's a sign of authenticity. A shinney backed 1880s-1910s tobacco pin would be out of the ordinary.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by sayheykid54

This past weekend I noticed a nice Ty Cobb pin PWCC was selling. Based on the craziness surrounding PWCC lately, it made me look a lot closer at the pin. I noticed that the back rim was an untarnished brighter silver in appearance. Thoughts on the pin? Am I being paranoid??

I decided NOT to bid on the auction.

No, it's probably fake.. like the signed Jordan Jersey.