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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

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  #1  
Old 10-30-2005, 07:36 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The 1st page of the Album depicts 4 BaseBall Champions
....Anson....Andrews....Caruthers....Brouthers



This next page features 4 Jockeys from the 1880's.
Isaac Murphy is the 1st Black athlete to be portrayed
in a major sports card issue. He and "Snapper" Gar-
rison provided to the horse racing fans of that time
a very intense rivalry.

The Lawn Tennis Association was established in the
1880's. The first National Championships (US Open)
were conducted in Newport, Rhode Island.
Mr. Sears (upper left) was the reigning Champion
for most of the 1880's.




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  #2  
Old 10-30-2005, 07:52 AM
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Posted By: Ray

I don't collect 19th century stuff, but those pages are stunning! The picture in the middle of the lawn tennis page is unbelieveable! Thanks for sharing with us!

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  #3  
Old 10-30-2005, 06:05 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Ray

There are 29 more Sports Champions that are spread
over 6 more very colorful pages. I will be displaying
them in subsequent posts. So, keep checking out this
thread. As I add a new page the number of Champions
on this Thread's Title increases.

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  #4  
Old 10-30-2005, 07:36 PM
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Posted By: David Vargha

Ted -- Thanks for posting the images.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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  #5  
Old 10-31-2005, 06:16 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The four Champion Bicyclists are Stevens, Rowe,
Prince, and Wood. At first glance it looks like
they are on UniCycles. But, upon closer observa-
tion there is a rear mini-wheel on their bikes.


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  #6  
Old 10-31-2005, 06:50 PM
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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

I just love the ones with sky in the background, for some reason. There's such rich color, and the clouds are so ominous. The baseball cards all look like there's a storm coming, with deep blues and grays in the background.

Fantastic scans - thanks.

-Al

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  #7  
Old 11-02-2005, 08:35 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The term "Pugilist" (from Latin) was more commonly used to describe
prize fighters back in the late 19th Century. So, here are the five
Pugilists in the N162 set.

Most notable is John L. Sullivan, who was proclaimed the 1st Heavy-
weight champion by virtue of his bare knucle victories during the
1880's. In 1882 Sullivan fought James J. Corbett in the first match
under the Marquis of Queensbury Rules (boxing gloves & 3 min. rounds).
Sullivan lost this fight; and, his record was 32 wins and only 1 loss.

The other 4 boxers are Jem Smith, Charlie Mitchell, Jack Kilrain, and
Jack Dempsey. This Dempsey is not the famous "Manassa Mauler" we all
know from the 1920's. However, he was a champion in his own right.

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  #8  
Old 11-02-2005, 05:03 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Adam W.

What can you tell us about Smith, Mitchell, Kilrain,
and the "original" Jack Dempsey ?

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  #9  
Old 11-03-2005, 02:39 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Front cover of N162 Album (A36) with a very interesting
hand-written inscription that is dated....1889

This Goodwin Champs set is catalogued as an 1888 issue.
But, I am skeptical about this, and its not based solely
on the year written on my Album. Two factors lead me to
believe that the cards were actually issued in 1889.
They are:
Fred Dunlap was traded to Pittsburgh in 1888....and

Beecher was in the Yale class of 1888.

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  #10  
Old 11-03-2005, 02:59 PM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

Let's start with the background: at the time these folks were active there were three divisions: light, middle and heavyweight. Also, there was a divergence in rules between the London Prize Ring and the Marquis of Queensbury. Also, with the distances between the US and UK, there wasn't really a "world" champion but there were champions from each area who would on occasion slug it out.

Jake Kilrain at his peak was a fireplug of 5'10" and 230#. His most notable fight was the 1889 heavyweight championship bout between Jake Kilrain and John L. Sullivan. Again, a little background: There was no organized commission or sport awarding belts. Paddy Ryan was generally acknowledged as the US champ when Sullivan demolished him and took over. For several years Sullivan was recognized as the man. Kilrain was championed by Richard K. Fox, the publisher of the Police Gazette, who hated Sullivan. Fox put up a belt and had Kilrain challenge Sullivan in 1887. When JLS refused because they couldn't come to terms, Fox crowned Kilrain champ, but no one bought it. On July 8, 1889 they finally rumbled in New Orleans, Sullivan winning the 75-rounder. The only reason it went 75 rounds is that Kilrain ran away more than the knights in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Jem Smith was champion of England for a time. He rumbled with Kilrain for 106 rounds, to a draw. By 1889, having had his can kicked successively by Peter Jackson and Frank Slavin, he retired. Since Kilrain and Smith draw and Sullivan demolished Kilrain, you have some idea of where Smith stood in the heirarchy.

Charlie Mitchell was another English champ. He fought with Sullivan to a 39-round draw in 1888. Mitchell then went with Jim Corbett in 1894 in Florida, but got his butt kicked in 3 rounds.

Jack "Nonpariel" Dempsey was middleweight champ during the 3-division period, holding that title from 1884-1891. Bob Fitzsimmons KO'd him in 13 rounds to take the crown. Fitz went on to become the first fighter to hold two titles at the same time when he beat Corbett for the heavyweight title.

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  #11  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:57 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Adam W.

Thanks much for the insight into these four boxers.

I try to get as much information on all the 50 Champs
in this set. It is my favorite sportscard set of all the
sets I have collected. And, they are numerous.

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  #12  
Old 11-06-2005, 12:57 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The Billiards Champions are Daly, Sexton, Schaefer, Vignaux,
and Slosson.

For a long time these cards were underpriced in the N162 set.
Recent sales and auctions' higher prices for these guys are
indicative of the growing collector base for billiards cards.

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  #13  
Old 11-09-2005, 06:49 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The top card is D'Oro, a Pool player. Why he is differentiated from
the Billiards players of that era.....I am not sure.....Can anyone on
this Forum explain this to me ?

Two Wrestlers are depicted....Muldoon and Joe Acton.

Emil Voss has the title "Strongest Man in the World".

And.....the "Champion of the Wild West Hunters" goes to the inimitable
"Buffalo Bill" Cody. I always wondered why his companion, Annie Oakley,
was not in this set ? Both of these Wild West legends are featured in
the 1887 Allen & Ginters set.


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  #14  
Old 11-09-2005, 11:33 AM
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Posted By: identify7

It appears that D'Oro is portrayed as a pocket billiards player (which, of course, is a different game).

Oakley and her husband were performers at the Cody show, much like Sitting Bull. But it was his show.

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  #15  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:04 PM
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Posted By: MyBuddy

Two totally unscientific oberservations on D'Oro (based on his t218 card):
1 -- Shot left-handed
2 -- Cuban
Maybe this gave him some "intrigue."

Wish I could add something to the boxing post, other than the best looking cards in set (IMveryHumbleO) ...

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  #16  
Old 11-09-2005, 01:14 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Pool and billards are two very different games, thus distinction. Billards was much much more popular than pool back then, thus the reason for more billiards players.

Jay

I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

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  #17  
Old 11-09-2005, 07:04 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Gil or Jay

The only game I have ever played on a modern day pool table
is "8 - Ball", using 15 balls and of course a cue ball.

It looks like the old game of billiards was played with
only 3 balls. Can you please explain this game ?

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  #18  
Old 11-09-2005, 07:12 PM
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Posted By: Glenn

Pool is the game we are all familiar with and is sometimes mistakenly referred to as billiards. An actual billiard table has no pockets; the object in billiards is not to sink balls into pockets (which, again, are nonexistent), but rather, in a single shot, to make successive contact between the cue ball and several rails of the table followed by contact with one of the billiard balls.

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  #19  
Old 11-10-2005, 06:23 AM
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Posted By: identify7

Ted, on the surface it is very simple, but billiards is more like chess than you would think. Actually, it is more like chess while riding a bicycle blindfolded.

In this game you shoot your cue ball so that it strikes one of the other two balls and three cushions before it hits the last ball.
There are many variations on this theme.

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  #20  
Old 11-11-2005, 04:47 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Glenn and Gil

Thanks for the Billiards lesson, guys.

But, I will "stick" to straight pool, to me its a lot more fun.

Gil, I think I'm a pretty good chess player; but, I'm not sure
I understand your comparison between Billiards & Chess ?

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  #21  
Old 11-11-2005, 05:23 AM
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Posted By: identify7

Just when you think that you have every angle figured to perfection - along comes the oversight. A little unplanned spin on your rook, bouncing harder than you thought off of the knight ...

Billiards is a lot of figuring out the best shot. It is a lot of implementing too. But if you can figure it out, the skill will come, I think.
Of course, this does not really apply to three cushion billiards (which is where the bicycle and blindfold come in). But if you try one cushion billiards, you will quickly find that you play position to achieve a run of several shots.

Unless you are quite experienced Ted, three cushion billiards is a game that you try with a friend - and by the time that either of you makes a successful shot - you have had enough of that game.

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  #22  
Old 11-11-2005, 09:55 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Speaking about Chess....here are the Chess Champions featured
in the N162 set:

.....Zukertort.....Steinitz.....Capt. MacKenzie

Also 3 Pedestrian Champions are depicted on this page:

.....Rowell.....James Albert.....Pat Fitzgerald

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  #23  
Old 11-12-2005, 07:18 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

GIL

If I recall correctly, you grew up in or near NY (I'm assuming
this since you are a NY Giants fan) while I was growing up in
Hillside, NJ. Now, there were several pool halls in the nearby
cities of Elizabeth, Linden, and Newark. But, I do not recall
any Billiards tables, hence nobody played this game. It was
strictly pool.....all forms of the game.

My question to you....was Billiards played where you grew up ?

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  #24  
Old 11-14-2005, 03:23 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

This page completes the N162 Champions.

The four Oarsmen are....Beach, Teemer, Hanlan, Gaudaur

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  #25  
Old 11-16-2005, 04:41 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The last page in the A36 Album depicts 4 more BB Champions
.....Glasscock.....Keefe.....Kelly.....Dunlap

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  #26  
Old 11-17-2005, 04:47 AM
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Posted By: identify7

Ted,

As you will recall at that time, pool halls were not the gala extravaganzas where one could entertain members of the opposite sex, which exist today.

You could rent a table, and pay by the time which you clocked out and in. Some pool halls had king tables (bigger - I forget the dimensions), some also had billiards tables.

I watched some (what then were older) guys playing billiards, and asked the guy who clocks you out and in on tables how the game was played. He recommended we try no cushion billiards. Which we did. You discover quickly with that game that you can trap the two other balls in a corner and get quite a few points in succession.

From there we moved on to one cushion billiards, which is a real game. Then three cushion billiards, which is a significant challenge, unless you are quite proficient. The "older" guys we were watching on that day, were playing three cushion. And were doing so successfully.

Very few pool halls had billiard tables. Actually most pool halls had less than twelve tables (usually 1 king). I have probably spent six or so hours shooting billiards so far in my life - so I am far from knowledgable on this subject. Maybe others here can add some insight.

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  #27  
Old 11-17-2005, 02:45 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Henry W. Beecher is the first Football player depicted in a
Sports card set. The 1st set of College FB players is the 1894
Mayo Cut Plug issue. Beecher was in the Yale Class of 1888.

He played for coach Walter Camp, who is considered the "Father
of Modern American Football". Before Camp came to Yale, Foot-
ball was a game played Rugby/Soccer style; it was brutal.
Camp developed the game as we know it now with downs, passing
and an 11 man playing team in the field. Goodwin should have
portrayed him in this set, as he was also a great player.

Also featured on this page are:
Capt. Bogardus (Marksman)....Myers (Runner)....Duncan
Ross (Broad Swordsman)....W.Byrd Page (High Jumper)

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  #28  
Old 11-17-2005, 02:57 PM
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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Thanks for posting this.

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  #29  
Old 11-18-2005, 05:35 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks Darren

As you probably know this is a very rare 19th Century Album. The only
guy I know that ever sells this Album is Terry Knouse (TIK & TIK).

This Forum allows me to share the magnificent colorful artwork from
my N162 Album. We tend to get carried away on this Forum with single
card issues and in particular rectangular pieces of plastic.

So, I thought showing these pages would be a pleasant change of pace.
This is what I call Vintage....19th Century....at it's best. It doesn't get
much better than this.


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